Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#31

Post by shemnon42 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #22

lnanek2 wrote: post #10

Aren't RSUs the opposite of job security? If you get fired or leave before they vest, you lose them. In the bay area they are often called golden handcuffs because developers halfway through their 4 year term often have another million in RSUs vesting, so can't go leave and work on their friend's awesome startups and the like, since the startups can't afford to match the compensation.

If you get fired, unless it qualifies under some due cause, the options should immediately vest.

Only if you are an executive. Rank and file tend to get the short end, which means you lose RSUs whether you leave voluntarily (took another job) or involuntarily (fired for cause, fired for no cause, or laid off).

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#32

Post by paxys » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #22

lnanek2 wrote: post #10

Aren't RSUs the opposite of job security? If you get fired or leave before they vest, you lose them. In the bay area they are often called golden handcuffs because developers halfway through their 4 year term often have another million in RSUs vesting, so can't go leave and work on their friend's awesome startups and the like, since the startups can't afford to match the compensation.

If you get fired, unless it qualifies under some due cause, the options should immediately vest.

Did you just make that up?

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#33

Post by goobynight » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

ozten wrote: post #12

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #6

RSUs are worth very slightly more than straight cash compensation due to the optionality. Your compensation will go up and down as the underlying stock moves, and you are allowed to switch jobs when the stock price moves downwards.

RSUs are worth more due to tax implications? I'd rather have a dollar now versus the equivalence of a dollar in a stock which is unavailable for up to 4 years... Even if your companies stock is out performing the market, I'd rather have a dollar now to buy company stock and keep my mobility. Employees need to be careful to diversify their portfolio. A dollar today can be put in any type of investment, whereas RSUs ca…

RSUs are as good or better than cash as long as you can keep a job for the length of the cliff. That's typically just a year...

The 4th year of an RSU grant is just as unavailable as my base salary 4 years away.

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#34

Post by alex_young » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #23

dominotw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have another million in RSUs vesting I would gladly wear these handcuffs :D

Depends on the actual numbers. They could be worthless or worth millions. Every funding round changes that.

RSUs are for public companies.

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#35

Post by ozten » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

goobynight wrote: post #33

ozten wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSUs are worth more due to tax implications? I'd rather have a dollar now versus the equivalence of a dollar in a stock which is unavailable for up to 4 years... Even if your companies stock is out performing the market, I'd rather have a dollar now to buy company stock and keep my mobility. Employees need to be careful to diversify their portfolio. A dollar today can be put in any type of investment, whereas RSUs ca…

RSUs are as good or better than cash as long as you can keep a job for the length of the cliff. That's typically just a year... The 4th year of an RSU grant is just as unavailable as my base salary 4 years away.

Good point, I wasn't thinking clearly about base salary 4 years away.

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#36

Post by paxys » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

RSUs are the best feature of the tech industry for me. It is the ideal way to get employees invested in a company's success, and the best way to share that success with those who made it happen.

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#37

Post by awinder » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #23

dominotw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have another million in RSUs vesting I would gladly wear these handcuffs :D

Depends on the actual numbers. They could be worthless or worth millions. Every funding round changes that.

RSUs should be a lot more reality based, these are not options to purchase on a hypothetical future liquidity event, they're restricted stock that turns into real shares on public markets upon vesting.

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#38

Post by bduerst » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

RSUs are golden handcuffs.

You'll continually get a raise each year and a portion of that will be new RSUs that vest over the next four years. If you ever want to leave, that continually means leaving a substantial amount of money on the table. Thankfully some companies will give you a hiring bonus equal to your unvested RSUs though (edit: the big tech companies poaching from each other will sometimes do it, for those asking).

As with all things labor related, RSUs are transactional. "Loyalty" shouldn't play into it because a large publicly traded corporation can only be so loyal to every one of it's employees.

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#39

Post by nugget » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #14

lnanek2 wrote: post #10

Aren't RSUs the opposite of job security? If you get fired or leave before they vest, you lose them. In the bay area they are often called golden handcuffs because developers halfway through their 4 year term often have another million in RSUs vesting, so can't go leave and work on their friend's awesome startups and the like, since the startups can't afford to match the compensation.

> have another million in RSUs vesting I would gladly wear these handcuffs :D

What are you willing to sacrifice to vest those RSUs, besides just time?

Your mental health?

Your physical health?

Watching your kids grow up?

Your marriage?

Etc. As other folks have alluded to it can sound relatively trivial (and sometimes it is, but often not) until you're actually staring into the abyss. The flip side is that quarterly RSU vesting is highly effective as a retention tool. I've known brilliant people pushed to their absolute breaking point before they finally leave (Amazon, I'm looking at you).

Re: Ask HN: Are RSUs worth your loyalty?

#40

Post by lnanek2 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #22

lnanek2 wrote: post #10

Aren't RSUs the opposite of job security? If you get fired or leave before they vest, you lose them. In the bay area they are often called golden handcuffs because developers halfway through their 4 year term often have another million in RSUs vesting, so can't go leave and work on their friend's awesome startups and the like, since the startups can't afford to match the compensation.

If you get fired, unless it qualifies under some due cause, the options should immediately vest.

> If you get fired, unless it qualifies under some due cause, the options should immediately vest.

That definitely didn't happen at my company. We had a round of layoffs and the package offered to people who signed an agreement not to sue only included a couple weeks of accelerated vesting. There was no performance management system in place either, so the people fired were basically just the bottom of the stack rank their managers were asked to turn in, which was often based more on personal like or dislike than performance.

There was one engineer entering his fourth year, who had saved the company 30 million dollars during his term with infrastructure efficiency improvements, who was laid off and lost millions in the RSUs that would have vested that last year (he was on a 10/20/30/40% schedule). All the ICs speculated he was fired so the company wouldn't have to pay.