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Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

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Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#31

You want to know the other side of Silicon Valley? Download the app called "Blind", where people talk openly while being anonymous. What you see there is that everyone is trying to maximize their TC (Total Comp). For most people, that's the only goal. The whole "Let's make the world a better place" is something that was sold by PR people. To talk more specifically about facebook, I have seen two attitudes in their em…

Google and Facebook seem to put a premium on analytical thinking and nothing on qualitative. All this seems to lead to a monoculture of only hiring analytical people. Maybe that is why they are okay with the two options?

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#32
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to say: "No, I don't work here because of principles" is something really nice but not everyone can afford to do. I'd question that. FB undoubtedly pays very well and probably better than almost all competitors, but at the same time most FB engineers could almost certainly take work somewhere else with a slightly lower (but objectively still fantastic) salary and still continue to live a very comfortable…

Getting paid is a pretty powerful motivator. Maybe you can afford not to, maybe others don’t want to afford not to. Salaries are good, the experience is good, job hunting sucks.

Maybe we should stop considering the experience "good"?

I know I'd look slightly askance at a resume that was full of tobacco companies. Maybe we should feel the same way about surveillance-tech companies?

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#33

Most of what the press reports is a distortion of the truth, or making something sound worse than it really is. Sure there are issues but all companies have them, just like Google, Amazon, etc. There are a lot of good people doing good work here, and connecting the world for the better. You don't hear about the 99.99% of the good things because that won't encourage clicks for the news rags. If the press took an inter…

This may be true but its very easy to argue that an organization with the global influence of Facebook deserves that kind of scrutiny. The average Joe may look like an asshole under the same lens, but I would also say the potential effects of his assholery are generally far more limited by comparison.

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#34

You want to know the other side of Silicon Valley? Download the app called "Blind", where people talk openly while being anonymous. What you see there is that everyone is trying to maximize their TC (Total Comp). For most people, that's the only goal. The whole "Let's make the world a better place" is something that was sold by PR people. To talk more specifically about facebook, I have seen two attitudes in their em…

> What you see there is that everyone is trying to maximize their TC (Total Comp). For most people, that's the only goal. The whole "Let's make the world a better place" is something that was sold by PR people.

Facebook targets 95th percentile comp. That's very good, but if you're an elite software engineer motivated only by comp you're not going to settle for 95th percentile.

Other reasons that factor into job choice for most engineers: teammates, location, work/life balance, interesting projects, engineering culture/practices

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#35
I don't work for FB but in my experience, such decisions are most often times are taken by Product Managers who do not understand privacy implications. They typically try to bypass security/privacy teams to avoid the hassle of dealing with them. Also, Engineering teams are sometimes siloed and do not realize that the data they are messing with is sensitive in nature (MFA phone numbers in most recent case.) Most of these features aren't designed with explicit malice, but usually to further a goal of linking more data, generating more insights, showing better ads and so on and thats what interests most engineers.

In many cases of-course, they have tend to hide behind user consent - "The user consented to this very broad privacy policy which allows us to do whatever we want so it's okay." Having said that, FB did hire a bunch of privacy experts to fix institutional issues.

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#36
Throwaway for obvious reasons. Opinions are my own.

I joined in the last year. I had major issues with FB before, reflecting typical HN user stance. I joined because I was curious and their promises sounded like an amazing place to work.

And it is. They treat us better than any other company in terms of autonomy and input. Everyone has a tea seat at the table.

And what I’ve seen, the external perceptions don’t match the internal objectives. I hear real change from leadership, and most of the major issues are years old.

Fb has invested hugely in protecting elections, possibly more than any single government. They have doubled that on integrity, etc.

And realistically, I don’t think we know how to balance harm and good in the real world. I just don’t see tracking online activity as more harmful than the benefit that people get from the service. (Not so much US users, but the benefits to people in very poor countries are very real, and wouldn’t exist if the service didn’t monetize so well)

In short I don’t see them as an evil entity. They’re just a large one that is easy pickings for negative press. I used to work for the US government in a health research role; this feels similar.

When something is so massive and decentralized, the “bad press” events are gonna happen. I think FB, and especially Zuckerberg, have done a great job responding to these issues to try and solve them.

Remember, what Facebook is doing has never been done before. There are going to be mistakes.

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#37
post #6
post #2

I don't see the complexity here. They pay competitive salaries and people don't give a fuck about what FB does and accept the gig. Simple. Being able to say: "No, I don't work here because of principles" is something really nice but not everyone can afford to do.

> Being able to say: "No, I don't work here because of principles" is something really nice but not everyone can afford to do. I'd question that. FB undoubtedly pays very well and probably better than almost all competitors, but at the same time most FB engineers could almost certainly take work somewhere else with a slightly lower (but objectively still fantastic) salary and still continue to live a very comfortable…

> I'd question that. FB undoubtedly pays very well and probably better than almost all competitors, but at the same time most FB engineers could almost certainly take work somewhere else with a slightly lower (but objectively still fantastic) salary and still continue to live a very comfortable life.

I think what you're saying is true for people who already work at FB, but I think you underestimate how much of a boost working at FB is for people who are deciding whether to take an offer. Having dropped out of school and only worked at unknown startups, I had previously found it very hard to even get interviews but after I worked at AWS suddenly people were interested in hiring me. I am really grateful that I had the opportunity to work there.

When I was at AWS I often asked people how they felt about working there and by far the most common response was it wasn't the greatest but it would really help their resumes. Obviously anecdotal but it leads me to think my situation was not uncommon.

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#38
I work at Facebook. I may have the opportunity to work on a privacy-related product which, if implemented, would have prevented at least one recent headline. I'd like to get people's thoughts: would working at Facebook on such a product be ethically-permissible? Does working at Facebook in a capacity that improves privacy for its users absolve me of that sin by association? What if I only work on such a product for some of my tenure?

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#39

Most of what the press reports is a distortion of the truth, or making something sound worse than it really is. Sure there are issues but all companies have them, just like Google, Amazon, etc. There are a lot of good people doing good work here, and connecting the world for the better. You don't hear about the 99.99% of the good things because that won't encourage clicks for the news rags. If the press took an inter…

> There are a lot of good people doing good work here, and connecting the world for the better. What does that actually mean? This sounds like a stock phrase from a press release. At its best, I guess you could say Facebook helps you kinda-sorta keep in touch with old friends you don't see that often. But I somehow suspect that's not what the majority of FB engineers are actually working on. Your point about the pres…

There are millions of people in various Facebook groups that are connected, based on things like illnesses, concerns, etc. The ability to share information and experiences and support each other are unparalleled.

Just because you only use Facebook to connect with friends doesn't mean there are billions of people using it for other extremely beneficial purposes.

Re: Ask HN: Current and former FB employees, what's the other side to the story?

#40
post #17
post #10

Disclaimer: I work for a competitor of FB. Opinions are my own, etc. There is an aspect of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect when hearing stories about FB. I've heard similar stories about various tech companies from major press outlets and the facts & opinions in the stories directly contradict my own first hand knowledge. Given this data, why should I trust press articles about FB when they're…

> they're written by the same journalists who are focused on maximizing revenue for their own companies? That's a pretty huge accusation to casually throw out. Where is the actual evidence that a journalist writing an article critical of Facebook is doing so because they are focused on maximising revenue for their own company? Most journalists have nothing to do with the business side of their company, and this feels…

>Where is the actual evidence that a journalist writing an article critical of COMPANY is doing so because they are focused on maximising revenue for their own company?

recent example is bloomberg and their china chip hacking (did that ever turn out to be true?) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

where the writers get compensated if their story moves stock prices https://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-reporters-compensa...

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