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Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

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Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I constantly travel to Latin America, speaking at conferences and recruiting talent. I've lived/worked in Chile, Argentina, Mexico, Peru Colombia and traveled to Honduras and Guatemala. If you want to go to central america let me know. I can introduce you to the tech/startup community there. They can hook you up with the best/safest placest to live, work areas, and the whole thing. My personal experience is with Guat…

If you ever decide to come to Mexico and need a safe place to stay give me a buzz as well. I'll hook you up.

Where in Mexico?

Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#33
post #3

Someone who is a member of a lesser known six person startup (the other five of which Im sure are lovely people) took some front end development work from me, then dissappeared off the face of the earth - no Skype, no email, no phone calls - before the product could be completed, without warning. The guy is otherwise a nice person, but I get the feeling he was desperate for the cash and did a bad thing.

You paid ahead of delivery or just a (small) downpayment ?

I paid per milestone, which were set by the developer according to his own estimation of delivery, with a thousand dollar plus bonus to meeting his own schedule. there was never any dispute, just the occasional 'I'm sorry this has taken so long, something came up' until after getting paid for near completing the first three milestones, he disappeared.

I was in another continent, so after all communication failed, decided not to peruse the matter. However I ran into him at PyCon this year, about 2 years afterwards. I didn't say anything, as to not cause a commotion. I'm over it, and a lot has changed in my life since, including that I can now do all the work I once needed him for.

Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#34
post #15
post #9

Built a MFA (made-for-adsense) site: http://www.snapspans.com/ :)

Care to share little more? Where traffic come from, how you built it, estimated revenue...

I was thinking about advertising arbitrage at the time. Arbitrage, simplified, works like this:

1) Buy something for a price.

2) Sell for a very tiny bit more.

3) Repeat as much as possible, for as long as the market sustains the price difference.

Early on in AdWords/AdSense, some sites were able to buy traffic from a cheap keyword and put up basically a thesaurus page with the higher value pay-per-click (PPC) ads more than covering expenses (eg. pay $0.05 per visit for a N visitors, then by optimizing conversions encourage click-throughs for > $2.00 each).

Later, before the online ad-market shook out upstarts, it was often possible to buy traffic from one source and sell it on another, most often to or from AdSense. Hence a proliferation of MFA sites (with almost no content but relevant AdSense links).

But not thinking too hard suggests that paying nothing for traffic, not paying less, is even better. So with an entrepreneur's ethics, I figured:

a) Business names and addresses are long tail search terms and not under copyright

b) Dense Pages of Long Tail Search Terms => Targeted, Specifically Motivated Traffic

c) (+ AdSense) => User Gets A Solution (finds a service) + PROFIT

I designed a logo, scraped some yellow pages, and it made some money. Continual earnings trumped the dreams to conquer the internet.

Incidentally, the name is a palindrome, and rotating the logo through 360 degrees both spells out "snapspans" and looks like a yin-yan:

http://www.snapspans.com/

EDIT: Somewhat erratically, as search engine rankings update every so often, it's at ~30K visitors and ~$450/month. It got spidered because of a link exchange with another more established site.

EDIT2: Probably a good opportunity to write a blog post and submit, but only if people care.

Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#35
When I started my first software related company at 21 (almost 3 years ago) I had already had some small successes in other businesses, and had a fairly strong customer base to start because of contacts I had made. So I went out hired employees bought copy machines, set up an office etc. But after the 6th pay period (3 months in) I paid all my employees and I had $3.62 left in the company bank account with several unpaid invoices from clients who I did not know very well, since we were working mainly for law firms and they are famous for not paying in a timely manner I did not know what to do.

I went and took an evening job at "geek squad" for $13 hour and started selling cars at a friends car lot on the weekends in a city about 50 miles away so none of my employees would know we were struggling. Often times over those next few months I was paying my employees from money I had earned working those two jobs which none of my employees even knew I had.

I eventually started researching effective ways to collect past due bills and I was harsh and even lost a few customers in my collection tactics, but ultimately learned a great deal about the types of customers I did and did not want which allowed me to realize that having tons of business was not necessarily as good as simply having a smaller, loyal customer base who pays their bills and respects your work.

I can recall one conversation where I was speaking to an attorney's secretary and she told me that after talking to "John" Aka the attorney in question, he simply did not have the money to pay the bill, but he "would get it paid as soon as possible" to which I quickly popped off "Well why don't you tell John that if he doesn't have the money he needs to stop parking his Aston Martin in front of my office."

luckily for me, my young hot headedness paid off and I received a hand delivered check the very next day.

While I struggled for some time to come and eventually spent my entire savings paying my employees salaries the business did eventually succeed and go on to be very sustainable.

When selling the company to a large firm out of Charlotte, NC I was even able to negotiate terms allowing all my employees to keep their same grade of pay for at least 2 years after the sale (they were all on salary and paid above market rate) While I worked harder in those 19 moths than I ever had in my life it was the most fulfilling time that I have ever been through and it shaped the me into the person I am today.

Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#36
post #6

I live in a little house in one of the poorest countries in the Americas, making Flash games every now and then to fund me and my startup. If I was back home (AU) then I couldn't have come anywhere near as far as I have - my cost of living here is like $500/month. I'm able to devote a tremendous amount of time to my startup.

Which country?

In contrast don't do this in Panama. It's freaking expensive in comparison. Renting a room in a decent part of town can cost you around 700 dollars. And that's just a smallish room. A decent studio will cost you 1 ~ 1.2k. If you go down with 2 friends you can get a room in not so decent but really not that bad area for 1.2 ~ 2k with 2 or 3 rooms. Gotta pay for your ow internet though.

Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#37

I went on a few 24 hour online poker binges to pay the rent. I won a lot, but had to borrow money from my parents because it took over a week to cash-out. Also drove to Foxwoods to play poker once with my co-founder when we were particularly desperate. We only had enough money for one buy-in ($300). Figured that if I was asking my parents for money again, asking for an extra $300 was worth the risk, if I had a chance…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#38
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You paid ahead of delivery or just a (small) downpayment ?

I paid per milestone, which were set by the developer according to his own estimation of delivery, with a thousand dollar plus bonus to meeting his own schedule. there was never any dispute, just the occasional 'I'm sorry this has taken so long, something came up' until after getting paid for near completing the first three milestones, he disappeared. I was in another continent, so after all communication failed, dec…

Wow, what a bad experience. Good to see you get over it without holding a grudge. That said I hope the person has learned their lesson and did not see your decision to walk away from it as an encouragement for a repeat performance.

Re: Ask HN: Any desperate things you did just to keep your startup alive?

#39

I went on a few 24 hour online poker binges to pay the rent. I won a lot, but had to borrow money from my parents because it took over a week to cash-out. Also drove to Foxwoods to play poker once with my co-founder when we were particularly desperate. We only had enough money for one buy-in ($300). Figured that if I was asking my parents for money again, asking for an extra $300 was worth the risk, if I had a chance…

saw the stream of your talk at MIT recently. good stuff.
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