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Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#31

Post by da02 »

holman wrote: post #21

People. Success breeds some weird shit, especially if you were close to people, which happens a lot in startups with a high work ethic. Friends turn into strangers, friends turn into enemies. Some make more money than you — a lot more — and some make less than you — a lot less. Brews some weird undercurrent sometimes. Money changes things. Even if you don't make real money... the perception of success changes things,…

Do most people leave when they make a lot of money? Or do they stay and continue working?

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#32

Post by skolsuper »

throwaway515 wrote: post #25
tlb wrote: post #8

Success can hide a lot of problems. Companies with wildly successful products have a strong bias toward "we must be doing everything right," when in fact the truth is only "we did some things right at some point". That bias can make it hard to change things, even clearly broken things. It can make it hard to introduce new products, since anything new will be tiny compared to the old successful product. It can make it…

This exactly, and sometimes it can be more than just a broken process or two. It could be that the rumors you hear are true, that there's some dirty secret that will eventually surface and endanger the entire business, and that there’s no bond of trust with executive leadership to confront it before it’s too late. I worked at a unicorn that seemed unstoppable until allegations of fraud surfaced in a major publication…

Zenefits?

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#33

Post by da02 »

throwaway515 wrote: post #25
tlb wrote: post #8

Success can hide a lot of problems. Companies with wildly successful products have a strong bias toward "we must be doing everything right," when in fact the truth is only "we did some things right at some point". That bias can make it hard to change things, even clearly broken things. It can make it hard to introduce new products, since anything new will be tiny compared to the old successful product. It can make it…

This exactly, and sometimes it can be more than just a broken process or two. It could be that the rumors you hear are true, that there's some dirty secret that will eventually surface and endanger the entire business, and that there’s no bond of trust with executive leadership to confront it before it’s too late. I worked at a unicorn that seemed unstoppable until allegations of fraud surfaced in a major publication…

Were any of the allegations true?

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#34

Post by seibelj »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #30
seibelj wrote: post #24

The best reason to work at a startup is if you are a founder and have significant equity. The other reasons to join are if you are enamored with a technology that they specifically use or want to get experience quickly wearing a lot of hats. There are no other reasons to work at a startup. You will work much harder, for less money, and poor benefits relative to larger companies. You work in uncertainty. Unless you ar…

Advice like this helps people from wasting the best years of their life.

I have worked at several startups. So far my payout from stock options has been a $7,000 loss, but maybe some of these shares will be worth something... someday!

My career was accelerated because of all the experience I had, and in terms of title and skills I got ahead faster.

But in terms of total compensation and the number of hairs remaining on my head, I would have much more wealth and many more hairs had I played it safe at a megacorp.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#35

Post by georgewsinger »

throwaway515 wrote: post #25
tlb wrote: post #8

Success can hide a lot of problems. Companies with wildly successful products have a strong bias toward "we must be doing everything right," when in fact the truth is only "we did some things right at some point". That bias can make it hard to change things, even clearly broken things. It can make it hard to introduce new products, since anything new will be tiny compared to the old successful product. It can make it…

This exactly, and sometimes it can be more than just a broken process or two. It could be that the rumors you hear are true, that there's some dirty secret that will eventually surface and endanger the entire business, and that there’s no bond of trust with executive leadership to confront it before it’s too late. I worked at a unicorn that seemed unstoppable until allegations of fraud surfaced in a major publication…

Theranos?

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#36

Post by deanmoriarty »

crunchlibrarian wrote: post #16

I have had two startups promise me the moon and the stars only to fire me shortly after the product was developed and viable. One found a way to screw me out of all the equity as well, which would have made me a ten something millionaire. Once people start smelling money things shift quickly.

I would be very interested in knowing the specific details of how you got your equity stolen in a legal way, if you have some time to reply.

Thanks

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#37

Post by swoorup »

seibelj wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advice like this helps people from wasting the best years of their life.

I have worked at several startups. So far my payout from stock options has been a $7,000 loss, but maybe some of these shares will be worth something... someday! My career was accelerated because of all the experience I had, and in terms of title and skills I got ahead faster. But in terms of total compensation and the number of hairs remaining on my head, I would have much more wealth and many more hairs had I playe…

Do you literally meant that you have lost some hairs. This is the only thing that is holding me back from joining startups

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#38

Post by seibelj »

swoorup wrote: post #37
seibelj wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked at several startups. So far my payout from stock options has been a $7,000 loss, but maybe some of these shares will be worth something... someday! My career was accelerated because of all the experience I had, and in terms of title and skills I got ahead faster. But in terms of total compensation and the number of hairs remaining on my head, I would have much more wealth and many more hairs had I playe…

Do you literally meant that you have lost some hairs. This is the only thing that is holding me back from joining startups

Looking at my uncles and brother, I would have lost this hair either way. But I have certainly been in a lot of stressful situations. One time I took a paycut to minimum wage that lasted 6 months! Not fun.

But in tech, any halfway talented engineer can get a job in 5 seconds, so the risk isn’t that bad.

It’s just the hours, the stress, the uncertainty, the low pay relative to megacorps, and the founders who make 1000x payout if they manage to sell it.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#39

Post by rock_hard »

da02 wrote: post #31
holman wrote: post #21

People. Success breeds some weird shit, especially if you were close to people, which happens a lot in startups with a high work ethic. Friends turn into strangers, friends turn into enemies. Some make more money than you — a lot more — and some make less than you — a lot less. Brews some weird undercurrent sometimes. Money changes things. Even if you don't make real money... the perception of success changes things,…

Do most people leave when they make a lot of money? Or do they stay and continue working?

From my expierence most people leave soon after they can cash out.

It’s the top tier (VPs or people with a clear path to becoming one) people who usually stay

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#40

Post by mooreds »

mikekchar wrote: post #22
holman wrote: post #21

People. Success breeds some weird shit, especially if you were close to people, which happens a lot in startups with a high work ethic. Friends turn into strangers, friends turn into enemies. Some make more money than you — a lot more — and some make less than you — a lot less. Brews some weird undercurrent sometimes. Money changes things. Even if you don't make real money... the perception of success changes things,…

Successful companies also attract gold diggers. When the company is small, unless everybody is going above and beyond the call of duty, it's likely going to fail. As the company gets bigger, there is more and more latitude for failure. At some point it is successful enough that it can survive having people whose only goal is to direct a large amount of money into their pockets. This can lead to really weird decisions…

Slightly different take: I remember back in the dotcom boom, a company of which I was a part started to go downhill (in a bumpy fashion, with VC money).

In retrospect, one of the early employees observed that this happened when the company "was big enough that people could hide".

That seemed to happen around 60ish people.

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