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Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

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Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#31

Post by eeks »

Like many others said it highly depends on where you work and for whom you work. Speaking from experience in NYC greater area, you can expect starting slighlty above $100K as a junior, which is really not much for the location. Seniors often go between $200 and $250K. The finance industry tops these with 50% to 100% bonuses. Large attractive companies like GOOG or FB top these with other form of bonuses. Also speaking from experience I would equate a $100K salary in greater NYC with a €25K salary in a average town like Lyon or Grenoble in France.

The absolute number is really meaningless. I remember a Ph.D prep talk about salary expectation in grad school in France mentioning $105K in the US, and I remember thinking “wow!”. What they don’t tell you is that a third of this will go to taxes, half of the reminder will go to housing, and because of the outrageous deductible and out-of-pocket caps of most corporate medical insurances you can be hit anytime with a $2K or $3K medical bill, which can be quite common if you have kids.

Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#32

Post by mstaoru »

Just FYI, I can share how things stand in Shanghai, China now.

An average IT graduate can expect to earn around net RMB150k/year, which is about US$23k. This is about twice the median for junior workers. Shanghai is one of the most expensive cities in China to rent, with average rents at 140-150% of median income, topped only by Beijing. Of course, with the largest subway system in the world, with prices starting from $0.3 per journey, everybody lives on the outskirts where the rent is cheaper, and commute a very manageable (though quite tight) 40-60 minutes to the downtown or numerous IT parks within the city.

The average programmer stays around there with the salary for years, the experience is not that important. But good and exceptional programmers command salaries that are much higher. I'd say from interview experience, 1-3% percent are good or have potential.

IT hubs in the country are centered around Hangzhou (Alibaba), Shenzhen (Tencent, hardware), Shanghai (many Western companies, esp. gaming), and Beijing. In well-financed Chinese IT unicorns, a good engineer can easily get net RMB700k/year (US$105k), and this is the country where you pay $3 for doctor consultation, $20 for tomography, and $15 to rent a car for a day.

In hot industries, it can be even higher. Just a few days ago we interviewed a talented candidate for blockchain startup CTO-level position, and the ask was net RMB2m/year (US$300k), villa-level housing allowance, and a personal driver. We didn't take it, but surely some unicorn will.

Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#33

Post by ksherlock »

No. California should be considered a separate country with their own exchange rate. Like you're visiting Japan and you buy a cup coffee. And it's 200 Yen. And you freak out for minute then remember that's really just $2. Divide California numbers by 3 or 4 to get something more reasonable.

Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#34

Post by ccajas »

Software developers in the bottom 20-25 percentile of their local area make roughly half of the local median in most places in the US.

A lot of people seem to think you have it automatically made in the shade if you're a software engineer. But it doesn't guarantee a good income, not even in the US. Cue delusional managers seeking $15/hr full-stack web developers. Or the infamous "do everything with computers" one-man IT job that gives you no benefits or no strong future with the company.

There are a lot of people in this field that still struggle financially, even though they are not buying expensive luxuries.

Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#35

Post by vanadium »

arcanus wrote: post #17
eaenki wrote: post #5

In Zurich, Geneva, Oslo and Rejkavik, you can also get a job that pays that much at a software/financial company/startup (and healthcare it's much cheaper/included in taxes). In the US, that kind of salary it's common only in the Silicon Valley and NY.

> In the US, that kind of salary it's common only in the Silicon Valley and NY. I don't agree with that statement. The title relates to six figure incomes, which are certainly quite common in all the tech hubs: Seattle, Austin, Denver, San Diego, etc. You certainly have to be in a major city, and ideally one with large software companies.

I know more than a couple of good front-end developers that work remotely from rural locales for big-city companies laying down 135k-140k USD salaries.

I also know directors in other companies in said big cities making only 10k more than that, on-site.

I'd say you can read a lot from the general trends, but there are plenty of cases in either position or negative direction.

Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#37

Post by chrisco255 »

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #23
arcanus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US, that kind of salary it's common only in the Silicon Valley and NY. I don't agree with that statement. The title relates to six figure incomes, which are certainly quite common in all the tech hubs: Seattle, Austin, Denver, San Diego, etc. You certainly have to be in a major city, and ideally one with large software companies.

I’m in Austin, Texas. I’m 26, graduated with a BA in Sociology, and make $140,000 as an AWS Engineer. There’s tons of money in engineering in the United States, but I would say it has come with a cost. The only reason so much money has been able to be plowed into software and hardware was because of financial products developed by Wall Street since the 1970’s. Obviously we’ve seen great results in software and hardwa…

Financial products? Fintech is but a small portion of the overall software industry. Neither Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, nor Amazon specialize in fintech, and the big 5 are as much a driver of high salaries as anything else. We get paid highly because, while software is expensive to build, it's basically free to distribute and so you have huge economies of scale where sometimes as few as 50 employees can make a multi-billion dollar product. And also, because software is hard to do well and there is so much platform explosion.

Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#38

Post by mrep »

mrep wrote: post #19
alextheparrot wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in a similar boat (Savings, company, and age wise) and have come to realize that kids are where people get really hit with the COL. Two incomes only go so far when you’re paying 2k/kid/month for day care and bought a house at a premium in a good school district. Kids I’ve come to believe are the only change where we’ll really have to start thinking about finances again (Right now our COL is just way lower than ou…

Oh totally. I cannot imagine raising kids in the bay area with the insane housing which gets you a tiny house, mediocre schools, and insane commutes. Add on the additional costs of kids and I do not plan to move/live there when I start having kids. Hence, why I hoping I can get into one of the satellite office once I get married.

I'll add that while COL is high (i pay $2,500 a month in rent alone), I have still been able to save up that $90,000 out of college in 2 years so it is a pretty good place to bootstrap your financial savings if you don't have kids/need a house.

Re: Ask HN: Does really every software engineer in the US earn ~100000?

#39

Post by joejerryronnie »

slics wrote: post #29

One thing you don’t see very much in the comments is the amount of time that you dedicate while working for a startup. Yes the salaries are high, but so is your time you put into working for a startup. From what I have seen and read, 60 Hrs a week is the average.

Startups in the bay area don't really provide the highest salaries, they compensate employees with potential future equity. The established tech leaders (FANG) and high growth mid-size tech companies are where the large salaries are found (base salary + bonus + RSU's). If you get into one of these companies and are a high performer, it is not difficult to begin making $200-300K per year after a few years once multiple RSU grants begin to kick in.

The issue is that this type of compensation is highly dependent on the stock market. Both the bull market in general and companies getting rewarded by the market for growth rather than earnings. You should be thinking about other types of investments (e.g. real estate, etc) that are not as tech/stock market dependent to funnel some of this cash flow into. Nobody knows how long this level of compensation will last.

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