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Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

#31

Post by scarface74 »

chmaynard wrote: post #6

When Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1997, there was a huge backlog of bugs and deferred maintenance in system software, presumably because resources had been diverted to the failed Copeland project. Jobs addressed the problem immediately, and the result was a series of very solid OS releases, starting with System 8 in July 1997. Ironically, Apple seems to have come full circle. If Apple has their priorities straight…

Jobs returned to Apple in July 1997, the same month that Mac OS 8 was introduced. Jobs had no real interest in Mac OS before OS X. He used a computer running NeXT until OS X came out.

Re: Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

#32

Post by scarface74 »

zbentley wrote: post #22
gargravarr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tragically I think this is the answer - all of Apple's talented developers have most likely shunted over to iOS and the quality of macOS has been left to rot. What's infuriating is that High Sierra, as referenced in its naming scheme, is supposed to be minor improvements on top of plain Sierra, but it breaks so many things that I am drawn to compare it to Vista - half-baked, unfinished, should never have been release…

> all of Apple's talented developers have most likely shunted over to iOS This gets trotted out a lot, but I have trouble believing it. I don't think Apple considers developers to be in short supply--and if they do, it's very stupid of them and they should reexamine that thinking. I know that demand > supply for skilled developers right now, but Apple has enormous amounts of money in the bank. They can't use a tiny f…

Money won't be enough to attract the best developers. The best developers want to do the new and shiny. Apple is in maintenance mode as far as software - no judgement but working on the next iOS release is nothing exciting. On the hardware side there is still some exciting stuff going on.

Re: Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

#33

Post by scarface74 »

smt88 wrote: post #5
gkgicccj wrote: post #2

Simple answer - no money in osx, it's all in ios.

Then why does iOS 11 break so much stuff? If the answer is simple, it probably has to do with culture/QA. But I don't think it's that simple.

It doesn't matter as much if an iOS upgrade breaks stuff as a Mac OS upgrade. The iOS market is so strong that developers rush to make their software compatible. Within a month of the iPhone X introduction I had dozens of apps with updated that just said they were updating to support it better.

Mac updates are a lot slower if ever.

Fortunately, the only apps I really care about besides the browser are developer related tools. Those are usually updated relatively fast on Macs and Windows.

Re: Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

#34

Post by wlll »

chatmasta wrote: post #12
wlll wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote this in another comment, but it's relevant here: It wouldn't surprise me if in the next few years Apple slowly winds down all things Mac. Marketing, updates, upgrades etc. and while doing that makes XCode Windows compatible.

Hopefully Linux compatible comes with that. I’d be pretty surprised though. The Mac line may not be Apple’s biggest seller, but it’s not like it’s losing them money. It’s a huge revenue stream. Also don’t underestimate the impact of the fact that every employee at apple uses Mac.

I'd like to see Linux support, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't happen unfortunately.

> The Mac line may not be Apple’s biggest seller, but it’s not like it’s losing them money. It’s a huge revenue stream.

Totally, though one that's only getting smaller as a % of their revenue. At some point it might start to seem like a distraction.

I've seen companies drop profitable products before, even those that were a larger % of overall business than Mac is to Apple, so it's not clear that it won't happen. I hope it doesn't, but it might :)

> Also don’t underestimate the impact of the fact that every employee at apple uses Mac.

It will be interesting to see what happens here. Could be an early warning sign of things to come.

Re: Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

#35

Post by smt88 »

scarface74 wrote: post #33
smt88 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why does iOS 11 break so much stuff? If the answer is simple, it probably has to do with culture/QA. But I don't think it's that simple.

It doesn't matter as much if an iOS upgrade breaks stuff as a Mac OS upgrade. The iOS market is so strong that developers rush to make their software compatible. Within a month of the iPhone X introduction I had dozens of apps with updated that just said they were updating to support it better. Mac updates are a lot slower if ever. Fortunately, the only apps I really care about besides the browser are developer relat…

iOS 11 didn't break things because of API updates. It literally broke phones. I had three friends switch to Pixel because of iOS 11 bugs, like not being able to make calls. Apple told them all to upgrade to a new iPhone.

Re: Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

#36

Post by scarface74 »

smt88 wrote: post #35
scarface74 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter as much if an iOS upgrade breaks stuff as a Mac OS upgrade. The iOS market is so strong that developers rush to make their software compatible. Within a month of the iPhone X introduction I had dozens of apps with updated that just said they were updating to support it better. Mac updates are a lot slower if ever. Fortunately, the only apps I really care about besides the browser are developer relat…

iOS 11 didn't break things because of API updates. It literally broke phones. I had three friends switch to Pixel because of iOS 11 bugs, like not being able to make calls. Apple told them all to upgrade to a new iPhone.

If that was a widespread problem. It would have been another "gate". Like "BatteryGate", "AntennaGate", and "Bendgate". There hasn't been a "Bendgate".

There also haven't been widespread reports that Apple told people that couldn't make calls on there phones to buy another phone - if that were true there would be yet another class action suit. The lawyers would have been salivating.

Re: Ask HN: Why does High Sierra break so much stuff?

#37

Post by vondur »

wlll wrote: post #10

I have a mid 2014 Macbook Pro (top of the line, discrete GPU and all) and some recent update has made it really slow (not the Meltdown updates, something before that). It now takes an age to switch workspaces, to load the task switcher, to change applications etc. Stuff also seems to go wrong more. App crashes, iTunes refusing to open, Finder crashing etc. The annoying thing is I tried to upgrade to a new Macbook Pro…

This is not normal behavior. Sounds like it may be a hardware issue. I'd first back everything up, create a High Sierra USB boot disk and wipe and reinstall the OS and apps. It's possible something went bad with the filesystem migration, and if that's the case, this should fix it. If not, then it's a hardware issue.
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