Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How does consensus work in an enterprise blockchain?

news.ycombinator.com

31–36 of 36 posts

Re: Ask HN: How does consensus work in an enterprise blockchain?

#31
post #28
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because it doesn't fit into your contrarian view on consensus it doesn't mean it doesn't provide consensus. You do realize that this "my contrarian view" is what computer science calls "the consensus problem", right? And that "my contrarian view" comes from a highly regarded publication that's thirty years old? > Nakamoto consensus solves the Byzantine problem quite well. Explain to me how . Byzantine generals…

It's quite simple really. Do all miners [eventually] agree on the value of a block? Yes? That's a consensus. True there are other types of consensus that are perhaps 'fairer' but that's not the issue here. So yes, it is a consensus protocol. It's called Nakamoto consensus, and it's perfectly fine for its purpose.

> Do all miners [eventually] agree on the value of a block? Yes? That's a consensus.

It's amazing how many things you got wrong in such a short statement. First, a program can't say when this "eventually" is. Then the "agree" part is wrong, too, because it can change just like that (because of forks), which even changes the history, not just a single transaction or group of them. And then there's also "all miners" part, which even read as customary universal quantifier ("all" meaning "most of them") falls apart if you remember that this needs to be assessed by a program with limited knowledge.

It's not a consensus in any computer related meaning that one could think of.

Re: Ask HN: How does consensus work in an enterprise blockchain?

#32
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trustless blockchain most certainly does. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15915957

It most certainly doesn't. You even confuse blockchain and Merkle trees, and call into existence some weird term "distributed blockchain". But then, consensus problem is a problem of establishing a specific value for almost all participants. Which implies that the value is established , which means that the protocol terminates . Blockchain was not designed to ever terminate, so it's not a consensus protocol even if f…

You seem like you understand more than I do. ELI5 why agreeing on an ordering of timestamps on transactions is not consensus, but agreeing on a single value such as "attack" or "retreat" is consensus.

Re: Ask HN: How does consensus work in an enterprise blockchain?

#33

When the Bitcoin paper originally came out, it used the word 'blockchain' to specifically mean a 'trustless distributed blockchain' where consensus is reached via mining, and that is susceptible to a 50% + 1 attack, and where the mining nodes are individual businesses that have no reason to trust each other except that the game is set up in a way that it is in their self-interest to secure the blockchain. However, th…

Huh? Bitcoin white paper does not have the word block-chain in it.

It may not have the "blockchain" exactly but it certainly does have blocks and mentions chaining them together.

Re: Ask HN: How does consensus work in an enterprise blockchain?

#34
post #31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite simple really. Do all miners [eventually] agree on the value of a block? Yes? That's a consensus. True there are other types of consensus that are perhaps 'fairer' but that's not the issue here. So yes, it is a consensus protocol. It's called Nakamoto consensus, and it's perfectly fine for its purpose.

> Do all miners [eventually] agree on the value of a block? Yes? That's a consensus. It's amazing how many things you got wrong in such a short statement. First, a program can't say when this "eventually" is. Then the "agree" part is wrong, too, because it can change just like that (because of forks), which even changes the history, not just a single transaction or group of them. And then there's also "all miners" pa…

This is just silly. By these arguments even block #1 has no consensus and has not terminated.

Because "it might fork" that's why it's not a consensus? lol, ok buddy.

Re: Ask HN: How does consensus work in an enterprise blockchain?

#35
post #34
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do all miners [eventually] agree on the value of a block? Yes? That's a consensus. It's amazing how many things you got wrong in such a short statement. First, a program can't say when this "eventually" is. Then the "agree" part is wrong, too, because it can change just like that (because of forks), which even changes the history, not just a single transaction or group of them. And then there's also "all miners" pa…

This is just silly. By these arguments even block #1 has no consensus and has not terminated. Because "it might fork" that's why it's not a consensus? lol, ok buddy.

Dude, you haven't provided any usable criteria to declare any particular block as "agreed upon". All you said was "eventually", and even that has flaws. It's not something to argue against well known mathematics.

Re: Ask HN: How does consensus work in an enterprise blockchain?

#36
post #35
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just silly. By these arguments even block #1 has no consensus and has not terminated. Because "it might fork" that's why it's not a consensus? lol, ok buddy.

Dude, you haven't provided any usable criteria to declare any particular block as "agreed upon". All you said was "eventually", and even that has flaws . It's not something to argue against well known mathematics.

Don't argue with us. Argue with satoshi. https://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09...
Post reply on HN