Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 47 posts

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#31

Post by mooreds »

convolvatron wrote: post #17
scotty79 wrote: post #7

Just move on. If he ever comes back, insist on paying what he owes before doing any further work. Once he pays apologise and refuse to do any work because you are busy with other clients (real or imagined). If he doesn't come back it's not worth it to chase. On your next jobs double your rate and ask for half up front. If client is nice offer small discount at the end to keep your clients happy. People you want to wo…

I actually have had a client come back and try to arrange further work without settling the last bill. Either the work was so bad it didn't deserve to be paid, or they cheated me, but not both. Its amazing that people think they can 'work the system' and extract free labor.

Wow. Did they just ignore the previous invoice, or how did they explain coming back to you? Did they end up paying?

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#32

Post by convolvatron »

mooreds wrote: post #31
convolvatron wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have had a client come back and try to arrange further work without settling the last bill. Either the work was so bad it didn't deserve to be paid, or they cheated me, but not both. Its amazing that people think they can 'work the system' and extract free labor.

Wow. Did they just ignore the previous invoice, or how did they explain coming back to you? Did they end up paying?

they just kind of admitted we had a disagreement that needed to be resolved, but didn't see why that wouldn't preclude me from taking on new work for them

edit: actually, thinking about it again, I'm pretty sure they implied that completion of the new work might cause them to reconsider their stance on paying for the initial work.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#33

Post by astura »

csdreamer7 wrote: post #16
coretx wrote: post #11

If your agreement is as firm as you say it is, continue what you are doing and /Sell/ the debt. You'll get a guaranteed percentage of the outstanding sum even if the ghost can't be tracked or prosecuted. The best part: No headaches, wasted time or bad PR due to dragging a client into a lawsuit.

Who would you sell the debt to?

Same place other creditors/companies/banks/businesses sell their debt to - collections agencies.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#34

Post by casion »

chrisbennet wrote: post #3

Never loan a client more than 1 or 2 weeks pay. My current client has gave me a large retainer up front but usually I try to work for more than one client so no single client owes me more than 40 hours pay. Technical competence is only 1 of the 3 things you need to be good at to make it in this business; the other two are (a) getting paid (b) finding new work

I would say that technical competence is not one of the 2 things you need to make it in the business.

You only need to find work and get paid.

Technical competence is just a bonus that may improve longevity, sometimes.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#35

Post by chrisbennet »

casion wrote: post #34
chrisbennet wrote: post #3

Never loan a client more than 1 or 2 weeks pay. My current client has gave me a large retainer up front but usually I try to work for more than one client so no single client owes me more than 40 hours pay. Technical competence is only 1 of the 3 things you need to be good at to make it in this business; the other two are (a) getting paid (b) finding new work

I would say that technical competence is not one of the 2 things you need to make it in the business. You only need to find work and get paid. Technical competence is just a bonus that may improve longevity, sometimes.

You could be right. I jokingly tell my friends that I get contract because people know my reputation - and yet they hire me anyway. :-)

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#36

Post by CyberFonic »

convolvatron wrote: post #32
mooreds wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Did they just ignore the previous invoice, or how did they explain coming back to you? Did they end up paying?

they just kind of admitted we had a disagreement that needed to be resolved, but didn't see why that wouldn't preclude me from taking on new work for them edit: actually, thinking about it again, I'm pretty sure they implied that completion of the new work might cause them to reconsider their stance on paying for the initial work.

To me that seems like they were playing you.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#37

Post by horsecaptin »

chrisbennet wrote: post #3

Never loan a client more than 1 or 2 weeks pay. My current client has gave me a large retainer up front but usually I try to work for more than one client so no single client owes me more than 40 hours pay. Technical competence is only 1 of the 3 things you need to be good at to make it in this business; the other two are (a) getting paid (b) finding new work

Couldn't agree more. There's a fun video that goes well with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3RJhoqgK8

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#38

Post by muzani »

chrisbennet wrote: post #3

Never loan a client more than 1 or 2 weeks pay. My current client has gave me a large retainer up front but usually I try to work for more than one client so no single client owes me more than 40 hours pay. Technical competence is only 1 of the 3 things you need to be good at to make it in this business; the other two are (a) getting paid (b) finding new work

I have programming students who come from some business or sales backgrouns. They feel guilty that they wasted all those years of experience. I tell them the same thing, the hardest thing about consulting is simply getting paid and agreeing on terms of work.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#39

Post by muzani »

brudgers wrote: post #14

Random advice from the internet: The most useful thing you can do is a "mission debrief". + Identify what were the warning signs of non-payment. Sometimes they will be there from the start and the client never intended to pay. In longer relationships, non-payment is part of changing behaviors and often due to other financial stresses (this is how it tends to play out in economic downturns). + Identify the reasons you…

+1 on identifying all the warning signs. I've done a lot of contracts, many unpaid. All have the same signs.

A major symptom is that many of my worst clients are both impressive and repulsive. We have decades of experience with people (yes, even us needs) and whatever your instincts are about someone, it's probably right.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if client ghosts and won't pay?

#40

Post by synicalx »

Not sure how this works with international clients and/or in your country, but in the past on two occasions when I've had a client decide not to pay I've done the following;

1. Send a final notice letter, indicating that non-payment will result in the debt being referred to a collections agency.

2. Sell the debt to the highest bidder, ie a debt collector.

In one instance, I got paid after the letter. And in the other, I made back ~60% of my money + got a VERY entertaining call from an ex-client who'd just had a debt collector rock up in his lobby and refuse to leave.

I'm a big believer in "F#ck you, pay me" and when I do freelance work I make sure that my clients share that belief. Generally I also lay out a schedule of payments based on either milestones (ie 'X is implemented') or on a regular timed schedule (normally once a fortnight) - if the client misses a payment, work stops until they pay.

Never let a client threaten you with "bad word of mouth" or any other nonsense like that - at the very worst they'll deter one of their mates from doing business with you, and if they're alike at all there's a good chance they would try and not pay you as well. It's not worth establishing a reputation that clients can just not pay you and get away with it.

Post reply on HN