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Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

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Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#31

Post by duck »

kenjackson wrote: post #21
duck wrote: post #20

After spending almost 20 hours on the phone with Microsoft support last week I can tell you why I wouldn't use it as my technology stack - you can't dig in to understand and fix a lot of things yourself.

What was the problem?

It was a SharePoint issue with the emails it sends out and it ended up being a permission issue (well, not even sure you would call it that - but the fix was resetting the system account's password). There had been no changes in accounts or anything else besides the creation of new sites and to make it even harder no error messages or useful logging. I've seen issues like this more times than I can count over the years and sometimes there is no solution that can be found. With open source it might take a lot of work, but there is always a fix that can be made.

Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#32

Post by abrudtkuhl »

fleitz wrote: post #30

It's just not trendy and the release cycle is very long compared to open source. The long release cycle contributes to the tech side being less newsworthy. Also, the stack is fairly standardized so if you are making a website your stack is going to be either ASP.NET or ASP.NET MVC and it's going to run on the sanctioned VM, and you'll likely be running SQL Server. Contrast this with the ruby stack you might be runnin…

I must take this opportunity to note that the ASP.Net MVC release cycle is far more aggressive than Rails.

Secondly... SQL Server is by no means required in the stack. We are using MongoDB as our datasource in an ASP.Net MVC app. You can use ANY database.

Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#33

Post by SkyMarshal »

MS seems to have equalized most of the initial price advantage of FOSS with their free bizspark stuff. Other issues involved:

1. Many startup hackers are good enough customize Linux for their needs, but would lack that freedom under Windows.

2. Open source security model perceived as more reliable than MS's security through obscurity.

3. Performance. Not an expert here, but from anecdotal evidence of running Win7 vs Ubuntu10.04 on my desktop, and WinXP mobile vs Ubuntu UNR on my netbook, in both cases Linux can run more servers, background, and foreground processes simultaneously with no system degredation than Windows can. My netbook under UNR is especially amazing - slow and clunky under Win7, as responsive as a desktop under UNR. Does that carry over to servers too? (and can you run a headless Windows server?)

The recent article on Reddit's server costs brought up an interesting consideration about hardware maybe not being as cheap as it is reputed to be, at least not in the Amazon cloud, and that maybe choosing your technology stack based on its inherent performance is still a valid issue (eg, choosing Rails (or MS) for developer productivity and then throwing servers at it till it performs well enough may be more costly than perceived).

Can't say for sure since I haven't used MS products for web stuff in almost 10 years.

4. Vendor lock in, increasing licensing costs as you scale.

Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#34

Post by [deleted] »

rbranson wrote: post #17

The paid/free argument isn't really a valid basis for business decisions. Developing software is extremely expensive, even using free software. However, there are numerous overriding benefits of open source software. #1: Startup founders use technology they know. Open source developers tend to be willing to trade more risk and effort for a more tailored and flexible end product. This is a similar personality profile…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#37

Post by fleitz »

abrudtkuhl wrote: post #32
fleitz wrote: post #30

It's just not trendy and the release cycle is very long compared to open source. The long release cycle contributes to the tech side being less newsworthy. Also, the stack is fairly standardized so if you are making a website your stack is going to be either ASP.NET or ASP.NET MVC and it's going to run on the sanctioned VM, and you'll likely be running SQL Server. Contrast this with the ruby stack you might be runnin…

I must take this opportunity to note that the ASP.Net MVC release cycle is far more aggressive than Rails. Secondly... SQL Server is by no means required in the stack. We are using MongoDB as our datasource in an ASP.Net MVC app. You can use ANY database.

Sweet, how is MongoDB working for you?

Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#38

Post by rbanffy »

markstahler wrote: post #10
gspyrou wrote: post #3

Perhaps its not trendy enough :)! http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/Connect.aspx

With BizSpark startups dont have to pay any licensing costs for some time. I also think that licensing is discounted when you become profitable. BizSpark aside, I think hosting costs/maintenance is much more. For a $20 512 Linode it would cost a hell of a lot more to run MVC.NET + MSSQL.

You should factor in not only license cost, but the total cost of maintaining and properly patching (as well as the mandatory unscheduled downtime that brings) a Windows stack.

Even if they give you the licenses for free, it's much more expensive.

Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#39

Post by abrudtkuhl »

fleitz wrote: post #37
abrudtkuhl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must take this opportunity to note that the ASP.Net MVC release cycle is far more aggressive than Rails. Secondly... SQL Server is by no means required in the stack. We are using MongoDB as our datasource in an ASP.Net MVC app. You can use ANY database.

Sweet, how is MongoDB working for you?

It's fantastic... Fast, reliable, and damn easy to work with.

Granted, we aren't in production yet... Will see how that goes :)

Re: Ask HN: (No) Microsoft based start-ups?

#40

Post by pragmatic »

I'm a C#/ASP.NET developer during the day. My latest project I'm prototyping in Python/web.py/sqlite. Why?

1) Cost, I want to keep costs low. 2) Hedging my bets. I want to see what the open source world has to offer. Can I be productive and not pay a lot of money to MSFT?

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