My server is in java and I hate jsp's. I prefer rest with json and a thickish client. imho jsps muddy mvc design.
Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
31–40 of 107 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#32I prefer scripting languages over a pure Java stack simply because I can reload the page and see what's happening with the new code. Yes, you can use JRebel, hook up a debugger and tweak settings to get some hot code replacement, but they've always failed me at one point or another, resulting in hours of fun. The compile-check-fix-compile cycle gets under my skin, especially when you're using frameworks and libraries…
You can do that with a JSP page, and Tomcat. You can use JSP very much like a scripting language (no need to hit a servlet, controller, etc), but obviously it can get a little messy to manage depending how large of app you write.
And that's why I thought he was talking about Java webapps in general. I mean, JSTL is pretty useless if that's the way you're going to use JSP. :)
Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#33Try out Google App Engine's Java support and the Eclipse plug-in, and if you're after a Java framework check out GWT.
I love Python and work in it almost entirely now, but previously worked with Java (yes I know the joke about them being the same with the whitespace re-arranged).
GAE gets rid of most of the configuration and scaling pain. Plus it's free to get started. There are some limitations, but essentially it makes deploying Java web apps a snap.
Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Once upon a time some guy thought it would be a great idea to simply construct SQL queries, make the DB calls and loop over the result sets trying to create somewhat decent output, all in a single JSP. I'm so incredibly happy I never had to work with him again. When you're writing a very simple todo list: be my guest. When you're attempting to create any kind of decent application and do use JSPs like this: you're st…
Who said anything about all that?
See my reply here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1535945
Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#35On the low end, I've always thought java has a significant disadvantage: memory footprint. In particular, this is compared to PHP/Perl/RoR/etc. When you start your java app you pre-allocate all the memory you're going to need for the process' lifetime. This could be 512MB, this could be 2GB+, but it's never small. And this is unaffected by your initial traffic volume. It's the same for 0.001 hits/sec or 5 hits/sec. O…
Actually I am afraid to host a RoR app on my server, which runs several Java apps. I think the server has only 256MB of RAM (it is old, but cheap), or maybe 512 - not a lot, in any case. I am much more worried about memory consumption of RoR. Never really launched it in production, but wasn't it the case that you have to load balance between several Mongrels, each consuming > 100MB of RAM? Java is just unpleasant to…
heroku.com
Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#36Because it is an abomination - it has less power than most of the other template frameworks available for Python and Ruby, and the tag libraries require mountains of XML if you want to write your own.
Now the basic servlet idea is pretty damn nice, and once you have your code written final deployment isn't that bad.
Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#37Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#38For me, it's purely emotional. My last class at Uni 2 years ago was a survey of web dev technologies. We built sites using ASP.NET, Perl, PHP and JSP. Java and asp.net were tied for worst experience ever. Setup and configuration of the Java stack was 2/3rds of the project. And, that's after taking 2 years of Java in school. Setting up a Java stack on a Ubuntu or a Windows box was equally as painful for me at the time…
Check out leiningen! It was made for people who are allergic to configuring the java stack.
Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#39Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?
#40One can make a case that when a team of developers uses JSP in the context of the entire Java EE stack, it gets certain advantages that outweigh the overhead of developing and maintaining all of JEE’s moving parts. My last experience with JEE was pretty horrific (portlets! Java Faces! madness!), so I am not eager to try this again, but at least an argument can be made in favor of JEE for certain applications.
If you take away the rest of the stack and are just using JSPs... why bother? I have found a certain comfort zone using Django and I’m not going to switch to a different framework or language just because it’s possible; I would want to know why that alternative gives me a significant advantage over what I’m doing now.