Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

The Gervais principle illuminates a lot of what happens in large organizations. If you ever feel like what you do matters less than how you're perceived, then you're absolutely correct [1].

So far as when to leave, I try to keep track of the health of the division (in a Big Dumb Corp) or company (smaller companies). If the business area I'm in is no longer a focus for the company (opex vs capex) or not meeting targets (whatever they maybe; sales goals, customer retention, etc) then that's a strong signal to start looking.

A few other warning signs: churn in leadership, senior people leaving. When you see the organizational knowledge base packing up and leaving that's a bad sign.

Currently, I've chosen to work in a Dilbert wonderland. This Big Dumb Corp is so dumb it's astounding. I'm here and staying (for now) because the division I'm in is a growth area, my manager is cool, I have one semi interesting long term project to work on, and since they are so big and dumb, they're paying 10-15% above market rate on salary and benefits.

[1] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

> suddenly, communicating ideas openly for people only interested in the product and the customer - and by doing that jumping over hierarchy's is a criminal offense - the last terminal stage is reached.

This is not a bad thing. The key is some hierarchy is good. For example, often in small organizations the product is at the mercy of the loudest sales person, demanding the feature to make their sale. SalesPersonX needs FeatureY to close a $50,000 deal, when CustomerA, CustomerB, and CustomerC have all requested ImprovementD, maybe they'll renew without it, maybe not.

Someone needs to make this call: prioritize ImprovementD or FeatureY. Maybe they can both get done this year, maybe not. It's a business decision, either keep current customer happy or drive for sales. Usually SalesPersonX knows RockstarZ's number and calls him directly. RockstarZ get's burned out from the constant pressure and quits.

So, someone needs to be gathering feedback from customers and prospects, build a roadmap, then project management can concentrate on delivering features. Some hierarchy is required for long term growth and stability. If you're sales people are burning out your Devs, you've got a problem. And you're goddamned right I'm going be harsh on the sales guy who's calling my devs directly.

That about sums up the why of my recent job change. It was kind of hard to explain why I was leaving my job during interviews when the question was asked. It's hard to point out one thing and the individual Dilbert-y things seem like stupid reasons individually, but altogether they were a sign I needed to move on.

As long as you're aware that this may not happen if your org is experiencing Dead Sea Effect. Having just gone through this situation, it can be challenging to understand when you're bitter and when you really are surrounded by less-than-ideal developers. Imposter Syndrome complicates this, as well.

I might be worth giving it a chance. Being paid to learn new technology is a pretty good deal. If you still find you don't like it, then move.