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Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

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Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#31

Post by patio11 »

ebtalley wrote: post #22
mbenjaminsmith wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is FizzBuzz actually used as a coder test? Are their really paid coders out there who can't solve that in a couple minutes?

I just got thrown the FizzBuzz test a couple days ago. First time I had ever seen it. Startled me that everyone else knows what it is too! I don't know if it would be blindingly obvious without the mod operator.

Let's see: x / y * y == x iff x % y == 0, if your language handles integer division like most do.

If your language doesn't do integer division that way, the naive approach is even easier if you know how to round: x / y == round(x / y) iff x % y == 0.

There are many, many other approaches which will work, too. I saw one guy hand-build an array of ints, initialize to zero, loop over it once with arr[i++] = 0; arr[i++] = 0; arr[i++] = 3 to set the multiples of 3, then do the same thing with the fives except checking to see if there was already a 3 there, then looping over the array a fourth time to handle the actual printing.

That is the kind of competent, worksmanlike programming that runs the world while the can't-do-FizzBuzz guys are hopefully not touching the code too much.

Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#32

Post by BinaryPie »

zedshaw wrote: post #29

You need to learn about control and responsibility. See, you have become responsible for your work, but you were not in control of it. Your employers have controlled it, and you let them by not pushing back on their decisions, which is understandable if you need work. I've done it. The problem is you are also now responsible for this work, because your name is on it. You're now screwed because the rest of the world a…

Wait are you saying I have to be content with who I am?

What do you mean I can't expect my employer to validate my passions in life?

Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#33

Post by Uchikoma »

mbenjaminsmith wrote: post #14
patio11 wrote: post #2

The typical engineer is not a genius. Don't compare yourself to geniuses. The typical engineer also makes more than you do, and you should find a job and close that gap. If you are feeling like you are unworthy, go talk to any chaps in London about the guys making 50k sterling while being unable to do FizzBuzz. (I assume you have them in London, too.) If you're worried about your portfolio being insufficiently graphi…

Is FizzBuzz actually used as a coder test? Are their really paid coders out there who can't solve that in a couple minutes?

Yes, about one third I interview can't FizzBuzz (thank god for http://typewith.me/ )

Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#34

Post by aymeric »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #23

There's lots of good advice on this thread, but I'll just say this: you're getting raped at that salary? I have a very close friend who had a very similar background as you except only about three years of experience programming, period. He got a job making almost six figures, 100% remote. I've got 4-5 yrs of PHP experience and I can easily pull down six figures doing freelance work part-time. Perception is everythin…

Any advice on how to find fairly paid freelance work?

Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#36

Post by tordek »

BinaryPie wrote: post #32
zedshaw wrote: post #29

You need to learn about control and responsibility. See, you have become responsible for your work, but you were not in control of it. Your employers have controlled it, and you let them by not pushing back on their decisions, which is understandable if you need work. I've done it. The problem is you are also now responsible for this work, because your name is on it. You're now screwed because the rest of the world a…

Wait are you saying I have to be content with who I am? What do you mean I can't expect my employer to validate my passions in life?

> Wait are you saying I have to be content with who I am?

When did he ever tell you to stop bettering yourself?

> What do you mean I can't expect my employer to validate my passions in life?

Because your passions are yours, and yours alone. You could get miraculosuly lucky and get an employer that shares some of your passions and lets you work in them... or you could remove chance from the equation and write code on your own, and open source it.

Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#37

Post by jac_no_k »

As mentioned in other suggestions, it's time to just try your hand on the job market. In my opinion, you are being too critical of yourself.

Perhaps you should be looking for jobs that isn't coding? Perhaps roles like project management is a better fit. You know enough code to push out eight projects to production. You have an understanding of the effort involved. You have dealt with management and translating requirements into code.

I've always recognized my strength is not in development but in gluing things together. In my day job, I get teased* for using Perl and the simple ways I get to solutions. But I point out I've pushed to production multiple projects within the corporate bureaucracy. I've seen many other projects just experience heat death as they get very complex with features. With the success I've had, I'm making my way to middle management as someone who is more useful at getting things done then squinting into a code editor.

In summary, I'm a poor developer. I can't create an algorithm to punch through a wet paper bag. But I can glue things together, my other brain is Google + Safari Books, and I have the stubbornness to push projects through to completion. Therefore I'm getting out of the developer role I never really was good at.

(*) The teasing is in good nature.

Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#39

Post by chipsy »

pyre wrote: post #27
ebtalley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just got thrown the FizzBuzz test a couple days ago. First time I had ever seen it. Startled me that everyone else knows what it is too! I don't know if it would be blindingly obvious without the mod operator.

I would consider the mod operator to be pretty basic though. (Feel free to call me out if I'm just being naive.) Outside of the mod operator, you could always use a combo of floor() and ceiling() (which I assume most languages have in a standard library). e.g.: from math import floor,ceil def divisible_by_3(n): result = n / 3.0 return ceil(result) == floor(result) Or even more basic: def divisible_by_3(n): result = n…

The main danger with using the mod operator is that you can get an off-by-one if you aren't in the habit of using it and forget the exact definition. If that's in doubt, rolling your own thing with a division or a while/if makes for a stronger guarantee of success on the first try.

In an interview you could explain your reasoning for such a detour as well, which might work out better than just "knowing the answer."

Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?

#40

Post by akkartik »

zedshaw wrote: post #29

You need to learn about control and responsibility. See, you have become responsible for your work, but you were not in control of it. Your employers have controlled it, and you let them by not pushing back on their decisions, which is understandable if you need work. I've done it. The problem is you are also now responsible for this work, because your name is on it. You're now screwed because the rest of the world a…

Another way to say that: you don't break out of mediocrity by learning to program better. You do so by picking what you work on. The craft is only a small part of it, and getting commoditized everyday.
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