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Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

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Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#31

Throwaway for maximum honesty: I am pretty sure I spend at least 75% of my time "at work" not working. HN, Reddit, messing around with side projects or learning a new language or framework. This has been the case for my entire working life. I seem to get as much done as other people (sometimes better) so part of me wonders if I'm not as unusual as I feel. Part of me wonders if I should get evaluated for ADHD, since I…

The best way to describe ADHD is: The TV is always on, but you don't get to choose the channel.

Some things are easy to focus on—I can sit down to program for a bit and lose track of time for 5 hours. On the other hand, if something is boring, it's mind-numbingly boring.

It was the worst while I was in school, since teachers and professors just thought, "oh, he's unmotivated" when in reality it was more along the lines of, "I'd rather cut my toenails with a rusty butter knife than write the paper." (Okay, perhaps that's a slight exaggeration.)

Anyway, if it affects your life and managing it yourself isn't working (give it an honest effort, of course) definitely speak with a doctor. While too many parents think their kids have ADHD when the kids are really just, well, kids, trying to cope with ADHD without some sort of guidance sucks. A lot. It's amazing how much more productive you can be if you get some help coping with it.

Just my $0.02.

Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#32
I have recently gone freelance/self-employed and I have quickly missed the reality of being able to not have to question if I'm actually getting work done every minute of the day. The truth is, I can't do brain-intensive work for more than maybe 5 or 6 hours.

Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#33
It is an interesting question which, in my opinion, hinges entirely on a fairly puritanical notion of 'work.'

One of my 'problems' is that I can't "not work" in the sense of a laborer who is no longer building widgets. As a person who is asked to solve complex problems with a high degree of dimensionality inside of an arbitrarily constrained solution space, much of the 'work' I do consists of turning the problem over and over in my head while I explore the solution space.

A good example of this was an early review I got at Intel by my manager (a really solid EE type guy). He added some criticism of my time management (considered a 'ding' in the vernacular) for a embedded compiler/assembler/driver thing I wrote as part of the evaluation of a graphics processor. He said I had 'sand bagged' the time estimate.

When I asked him to describe that a bit more he explained that I had told him it would take 6 months to do, and it was 2 weeks late, and I had spent 5 months "goofing off and not working" and then about 6 weeks doing the work. So my estimate should really have been '8 weeks' and if I had started on time it would have been done two weeks earlier than that.

I thought about that for a long time. And explained to him the for five months I had no idea what the best way to write the software was, and in that five months I had learned about 8 different technologies that all came together into the final solution. I had to learn how to write device drivers in Xenix, how to map I/O space memory into the kernel, design a language which was human understandable and could be compiled into the odd little RISC instruction set of the Graphics chip. And until I had figured out all of that precursor information, I didn't have a clue how it would be written, but then after figuring out that information actually writing the code was fairly mechanical.

In this one case the problem was that hardware has so many great milestones you can call out, parts captured, schematics done, netlists verified, layout started, design rule verification, first films, films checked, first boards, boards checked, first assembly. Bringup in stages 1, 2, and 3 etc. All along the way there are pleasant milestones to say "this is done" now on to the next thing.

But software is never like that for building something that nobody has ever built before. And it is even rarely like that when you have the same software but you are building it on a different system. The linkages, the entanglement between the system and the software (and now the network and the services) makes each new implementation its own special snowflake, with its own kinds of problems.

Have you ever woken up and "knew" the solution to a tricky software issue? Or had an idea for a change to an existing system that might make it better? That happens to me all the time when I'm designing stuff. And a case could be made that I'm working even when I'm asleep! Not because I'm sitting there typing in lines of code but because I'm going through the solution space, somewhere in my subconscious, looking for clues to places that hold better answers than the answer that is currently checked into the git repository.

As a result I tend to measure my own productivity by 'solutions over unit time' versus 'hours typing into employer owned equipment'. It still bites me from time to time when a supervisor needs a constant stream of 'still flying' type status messages to feel comfortable.

Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#34
Probably 25% on the average day. Occasionally 0%. There are entire days that I'll spend working on nothing but side projects, but our company is getting big so no one notices or cares. Sometimes I work from home just so I don't have to do anything other than be around for a couple meetings.

The bigger we get the more lawyers and compliance people we ad, and the less noticeable it is that I'm not doing shit.

Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#36
Over the first 15+ years of my career as an engineer and engineering manager, I've repeatedly surveyed colleagues and friends in engineering roles about this question. I've asked it of people I consider low-performing, all the way to folks I'd consider 10x developers.

I have never met a single software developer who, when pressed to give an honest assessment and when "working" is defined along the lines of "actively defining, coding, or debugging a feature", self-identifies as working more than 50% of the time. There are occasional stretches of 12+ hour working sessions, but they are very rare.

I'd say I've asked this of over a hundred people.

This isn't to say these people only do 4 hours of work a day. Often, peers have described how they hit a wall at work, go home, and then work on personal projects in the evening.

I've come to the conclusion that is generally impossible to do mentally intensive tasks for more than 4 continuous hours over the long term.

Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#38
post #17

Arguably, time spent reading HN is a legitimate part of becoming/remaining a good developer. Certainly, spending time socializing with coworkers is a required part of work, many places. Spending some amount of time unwinding at the office is arguably required for mental health and therefore a functional component of remaining a worker -- does that count as working? "Working" is an ambiguous category, it seems to me.…

I'll be honest; I don't think using HN is anything close to what I would consider "working." At best it's marginally optimized random browsing.

Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#39
I spend around 90% of my time at work doing real work. There are often days where that number is nearly 100%. At past jobs that number was closer to 50-60%, but I've moved into a lead role (Marketing Director) where slacking means getting buried. I don't mind it one bit, either. I'm helping to steer the company and that's very rewarding, even if it is a lot of work.

Re: Ask HN: How much of your time at work do you spend not working?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it starts during sprint planning. I know what work is going into the sprint, and what work is being assigned to me (we don't run sprints in the natural way of grabbing the next card that's free. I disagree with it, but it is what it is). So I plan out what I need to do on a day-to-day basis to finish that amount of work. For a normal sprint (i.e executing on plans and agreed upon designs) I try to plan the da…

How do your coworkers feel about you only being a few hours at the office?

They probably make snide remarks because they don't understand that someone executing according to plan, consistently over several years and projects, working 5 hours per day, is more valuable than someone working 8 hours in a less organized manner and sometimes missing deadlines.
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