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Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

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31–40 of 222 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#31
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Celica was not discontinued. I'm looking at a 2016 model right now, it's a clone of a Dodge Viper.

Can you link to a web page describing this car? The last Celica I'm finding reference to was discontinued in 2006 and looked nothing like a Viper.

http://carnewmodels.com/new-toyota-celica-2017-release/

Don't know when the release will be

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#32

So where does the Tesla Model 3 fit in ? https://www.tesla.com/model3

Electric cars change the whole logic since you need a relatively simple drivetrain (similar to that solar powered car built in high school) and a whole lot of batteries. So there's a lot more room for creativity and design I think. But from Tesla's perspective, they started out looking like a lotus to appeal to rich people and have kept design as a core part of their product so they probably will try to keep some part of that even in their more affordable car.

Also keep in mind that the 3 series isn't exactly for the mass market. Its price range is more like a BMW 3 series with some bell and whistles.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#33

Do you remember the Pontiac Fiero? Nice looking car (for the time), underperformed, had a habit of catching on fire.

As mentioned upthread & here, yes, the early Fieros did have a habit of catching fire. There were primarily two reasons for this:

GM refused to budget for a new engine for the car-it never really wanted to have a two-seater outside the Corvette, but after the second gas crisis, the turkish engineer who'd been agitating for what would become the Fiero sold it to management as an economic commuter car.

The idea was to save money by using components (including the existing engine) from GM's A-body front-wheel-drive sedans, amongst others. The Pontiac 2.5L engine was too tall to fit properly in the mid-engined Fiero, and with no money for a complete redesign, the solution was to install a shallower oil pan, making the whole engine run a quart low (at least) at all times. That four was also not especially resistant to burning/leaking oil; so it was always a risk that the engine would be starved of lubricant, overheat, seize and catch fire.

I also understand that there were problems with the factory wiring on the electric radiator fans, such that airflow was never properly managed in the engine compartment, leading to... overheating and fire.

These problems were eventually fixed, but a reputation for burning up at stoplights is a hard one to overcome with normal consumers.

(I say 'normal consumers' here. Lamborghini has made many fire-prone models, but Lamborghini buyers are Not Normal.)

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#34

As other answers have essentially already said- because Ferrari is a brand, and past a certain price point brand names often matter more than the physical object. Its the same in cars as in designer handbags. The opposite question is equally interesting; why doesn't Ferrari produce a relatively cheap car, so that they can offer the Ferrari cachet to a broader market? Presumably as to not dilute their brand. But it me…

Ferrari doesn't sell cars, Ferrari sells exclusivity. You cannot even purchase one of their top models right away, you must be invited by them to make the purchase: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/motoring-ne...

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#35
post #15

The Toyota GT86, Mazda MX5, and Nissan 370Z are examples of that. However, looking at how many models were discontinued (Honda S2000, Toyota Supra, Toyota Celica, Mazda RX8), maybe the market opportunity is not as big.

Also, Ford Probe vs Ferrari 456: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_456#/media/File:1995Fe..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:97ProbeGTS.JPG

(Ferrari have since moved a bit more upmarket; the replacement for the 456 is the 612 (so says Wikipedia), which I think looks a bit more like a Porsche Panamera.)

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#37
post #31
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to a web page describing this car? The last Celica I'm finding reference to was discontinued in 2006 and looked nothing like a Viper.

http://carnewmodels.com/new-toyota-celica-2017-release/ Don't know when the release will be

This seems to be a rumor rather than an announced product. It's a revised version of the current GT86/Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#38
I can offer an opinion not yet seen in this thread. It comes down to tolerances. My father works for GM as a tool and die maker. He says that GM is obsessed with tolerances in their panels. This means that the gap between the hood and front quarter panel is the same near the windshield as it is near the headlights. Same goes for all other areas of the car. It's hard to get right. If you start to get more complex designs with panels meeting at odd angles and with multiple bends it gets even harder, and more expensive.

Therefore, my theory is that mid range car companies don't want to build complex designs as they will increase the price of their car needed to satisfy their tolerance specs.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#40
post #15

The Toyota GT86, Mazda MX5, and Nissan 370Z are examples of that. However, looking at how many models were discontinued (Honda S2000, Toyota Supra, Toyota Celica, Mazda RX8), maybe the market opportunity is not as big.

The Celica was not discontinued. I'm looking at a 2016 model right now, it's a clone of a Dodge Viper.

Are you looking at a concept car celica? I don't think that car was ever produced.
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