If they are teaching Ruby and Javascript, then that must be a web development specific bootcamp. Javascript is a must for web, Ruby is a solid backend choice with very high readability.
Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
31–40 of 62 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#32JavaScript is a must know if you want to do web work. It's as necessary as HTML. It's the only language browsers actually natively run. Ruby on Rails is sort of the basis for most any other modern MVC web framework. That is to say it inspired nearly every other web MVC framework, in most other languages. If you can use Rails you'll be able to use most anything else. Prior to Rails most web apps had proprietary framew…
From a substitutes perspectives...
If you look at the absolute numbers, Ruby jobs are fewer, while (its primary competitor) Python jobs are higher (Python over Ruby by 2:1 according to both GlassDoor and Indeed). About the same ratio also seems to apply for job postings.
So why so many Ruby bootcamps? Maybe it's a relative thing, but I don't have estimates of the number of Ruby bootcamps versus Python bootcamps. But assuming there are more, I can hypothesize:
Python is increasingly being taught by universities. Thus there is a natural pipeline of Python users entering the workforce. Plus, with Python's "one obvious way to do it" philosophy and incredible online documentation, there's a lot less to learn to master it.
Thus, there would perhaps be more demand for Ruby bootcamps, even if the relative job market is smaller.
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#33Quite simply, it's great market fit. JavaScript has extremely low barrier to entry. Everyone has a browser, so you can get someone to get started without download any software. That's huge. Rails has the benefit of providing a framework that can get someone building functional CRUD apps in a tremendously short period of time. Between those two, you've hit a nice sweet spot where someone can be fully functional as a d…
I agree about "easy to get started." When I came up with the idea for http://TexasCoders.com I absolutely didn't want people to think about Javascript or any particular language, because I mostly care about teaching the fundamental concepts. I'm not advertising it as a Javascript class.
Maybe the appeal of Ruby is that it's "new" but not so new that it's a waste of time to learn. Also, my impression is that some effort was made to make Ruby's syntax "pretty" in a holistic sense, which might save a teacher some time. Personally, I was turned off by RoR very early on because it was a pain to install on Site5 (the first and only web host to offer it) and then had no compelling reason to try it again after that. Also the concept of "Rails" bothers me, because I think software should be unique and "off the rails" like art. But that's just my opinion :-)
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#34Most actual work is in "php". But, it isn't 'hip' anymore. So, they teach ruby. Ruby is more difficult and less clear. Rails itself is a land of 'gotchas' (I have 10 years exp in both). After learning ruby/rails it will be difficult to find work and understand basic database constructs. /end rattling my cane https://www.google.com/search?q=php+vs+rails+stats&ie=utf-8&...
Agreed on the first part. Don't know Ruby but the amount of hate PHP gets is not normal, especially for such a mainstream language
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#35JavaScript is a must know if you want to do web work. It's as necessary as HTML. It's the only language browsers actually natively run. Ruby on Rails is sort of the basis for most any other modern MVC web framework. That is to say it inspired nearly every other web MVC framework, in most other languages. If you can use Rails you'll be able to use most anything else. Prior to Rails most web apps had proprietary framew…
From a substitutes perspectives... If you look at the absolute numbers, Ruby jobs are fewer, while (its primary competitor) Python jobs are higher (Python over Ruby by 2:1 according to both GlassDoor and Indeed). About the same ratio also seems to apply for job postings. So why so many Ruby bootcamps? Maybe it's a relative thing, but I don't have estimates of the number of Ruby bootcamps versus Python bootcamps. But…
How many of those Python jobs are web dev vs data science / analytics / whatever? Ruby is mostly RoR, but Python is pretty broadly applied these days.
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#36For one Ruby just has easy syntax
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#37JavaScript is a must know if you want to do web work. It's as necessary as HTML. It's the only language browsers actually natively run. Ruby on Rails is sort of the basis for most any other modern MVC web framework. That is to say it inspired nearly every other web MVC framework, in most other languages. If you can use Rails you'll be able to use most anything else. Prior to Rails most web apps had proprietary framew…
Rails was only one of many Patterns of Enterprise Architecture projects. Martin Fowler made a book, then RoR came along, and the environment at the time was "hating" on PHP and ignoring it's PoEA frameworks (Cake) in search of a new shiny. Then it had an uptrend (common s-curve) and some sticking. Now JS is (re) having a similar trend.
Plus ça change I guess.
Also, the students I'm hiring (right out of USA community college) are taught Python and don't know any web-stuff yet.
So, I have to teach server-side PHP (dozens of legacy projects (still using PoEA)) and some HTML and JS.
As long as the know the code basics language syntax is a small hurdle.
Oh, and please SHIP something, anything to demonstrate at interviews.
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#38JavaScript is everywhere and they need it for the browser. Ruby is the most consistent and concise mainstream OO language IMHO. Ruby on Rails is still the easiest web framework to program with.
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#39Most actual work is in "php". But, it isn't 'hip' anymore. So, they teach ruby. Ruby is more difficult and less clear. Rails itself is a land of 'gotchas' (I have 10 years exp in both). After learning ruby/rails it will be difficult to find work and understand basic database constructs. /end rattling my cane https://www.google.com/search?q=php+vs+rails+stats&ie=utf-8&...
According to first link in those search results, ColdFusion is as popular as Ruby. I think you have to factor in the number of PHP "applications" where there's little to no development needed. There's a tremendous number of websites thrown up on $5 hosting with Wordpress and a $20 theme.
> After learning ruby/rails it will be difficult to find work and understand basic database constructs.
Doesn't have to be that way, but I'd posit that developers should learn to build an application using pure SQL before they learn an ORM.
Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?
#40JavaScript is a must know if you want to do web work. It's as necessary as HTML. It's the only language browsers actually natively run. Ruby on Rails is sort of the basis for most any other modern MVC web framework. That is to say it inspired nearly every other web MVC framework, in most other languages. If you can use Rails you'll be able to use most anything else. Prior to Rails most web apps had proprietary framew…
Rails was only one of many Patterns of Enterprise Architecture projects. Martin Fowler made a book, then RoR came along, and the environment at the time was "hating" on PHP and ignoring it's PoEA frameworks (Cake) in search of a new shiny. Then it had an uptrend (common s-curve) and some sticking. Now JS is (re) having a similar trend. Plus ça change I guess. Also, the students I'm hiring (right out of USA community…
Cake PHP was basically a copy of Rails. When Rails first appeared, it didn't exist.