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Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

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Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#31

> The feedback I’ve gotten... Corporate feedback is mostly Bullshit! There's often a weird dating aspect here. Dude, face it the girl just isn't into you. Don't waste energy trying to figure it out, move on! > I’m running out of people I know and their connections... This is where Linkedin is actually useful. Jump on the advanced search feature. Zero-in on profiles of senior executives who you can help. Think local C…

I've never been able to take rejection well, as I have next to no self esteem. I am trying to just push it out of my mind but the nagging thought of "I'm really just terrible" keep coming back.

I have done the LinkedIn method to a degree, but for places that I have already applied to. I also mostly looked for recruiters as I feel rude sending it to big important people at those companies.

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#32
post #24

None of this has gotten me anywhere because I am not a 10x top 1% engineer who loves whiteboard coding sessions and brainteasers and wants to change the world by working 80 hours a week, rather a (slightly above) average one who can get things done in an editor and just wants to earn a living doing what I’m good at. If that's the frame you're taking into the interview, I can see why they don't think you're a culture…

I don't bluntly say anything like that at interviews, and try very hard not to imply it via subtext. I put a lot of effort into being a confident interviewee, who knows their strengths and weaknesses and is honest about both.

I include links to my GitHub, but I will emphasize it more going forward, and I really like your suggested line ("i can be a bit ...").

Thanks for the reply.

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#33
First of all, don't give up. A lot of the advise here is good but I will give you my standard advise. I use it myself.

The bad: I have been developing software for more than 20 years professionally (I'm not young, nor cool). I went to school to be a lawyer (a horrible idea, don't do that!) and do not have a computer science degree. I am not a 10x developer. I have a family who I love very much and enjoy spending time with so I do not work 80 hours a week, ever. I stink at whiteboarding and get really nervous when I am up there. I have a muscle disorder and have a very noticeable tremor when my blood pressure goes up (ie, when whiteboarding a stupid problem in front of a group of people who are obviously trying to stump me).

The good: I am constantly employed! I change jobs, get contracts, and do very well for my family. I have had the opportunity to build up and sell technical businesses. I enjoy helping other engineers get jobs! I am not nervous about being laid off or unemployment.

Why?: I have a process for finding work which, well, works. When people say "there aren't enough software engineers!" they are right. This is a really good thing for you! But remember, not every fit is good for you. Finding work is your job right now so do it every day and have a plan. My plan is always this: find 5 new positions to apply to every day. Make minor modifications to my resume to help tailor it to those 5 specific positions, in order to help the hiring manager know they should look at me specifically. Keep an organized copy of all my resumes, notes on when and how I applied, and notes on which companies follow up with me. After I send out my 5 resumes, I call all of the recruits I know from each recruitment company I work with (not working with a recruiter? Why not?! Not working with 5 recruiters? Why not?! Not calling and bugging the hell out of these recruiters daily? Why not?!). Next, I follow up with each hiring manager of a company that has shown interest in me. This is a bit different than bothering recruiters (recruiters get paid a commission for finding you work, hiring managers are a bit different). If I haven't heard from someone in a few days I will follow up to find out "next steps".

Obviously, this leads to interviews. During interviews I always ask for next steps. If it is an initial phone screening I always say "I really enjoyed talking to you. When can we schedule a time for me to come in and meet for the next phase? Would from now work, or maybe ." Sell yourself. Give options and get them to take one. Keep notes on the results. During in person interviews (and often phone screenings), ask what the process is to get to an offer. They will ask "Do you have any questions for us?" "Yes! I am really excited about . What is the rest of the interview process before we get to an offer?" Take notes on this. Make sure they know you are interested in an offer.

When I first started using this method, I found about a 20% rate of interview on submission. So, if I submitted 5 resumes a day, I would get an interview for 1 of them. After refining my methods and talking points a bit I actually get about a 40% interview rate. Taking notes really helps with this. That's 10 interviews a week. Obviously not all of these will result in offers. But I have about a 20% rate of offers on interviews. So if I put out 25 resumes a week I can expect 2 offers from those companies, on average. Don't let up on the pipeline until you have the offer you want to accept in your hand. Always put out 5 resumes a day and call recruiters.

One last note about the dreaded whiteboarding. Notice how I say above that if I put out 25 resumes I get 40% rate of interview and 20% of that give an offer? Well out of 10 interviews a week I might get about 50% which want whiteboarding. Of course, I get 50% who don't! It's all a numbers game. I ignore the companies I fail at and focus on my successes.

Generally, with this plan, I often get the offer I am going to accept in my hand within about 3 weeks. It is often from the companies I apply for in week 1. But I never let off that gas until the offer is accepted.

If this seems like a lot of work, it is! But the rewards are very high. Never forget that.

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#34

First of all, don't give up. A lot of the advise here is good but I will give you my standard advise. I use it myself. The bad: I have been developing software for more than 20 years professionally (I'm not young, nor cool). I went to school to be a lawyer (a horrible idea, don't do that!) and do not have a computer science degree. I am not a 10x developer. I have a family who I love very much and enjoy spending time…

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. I really appreciate the advice, and I'll try to emulate it as best I can.

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#35

> The feedback I’ve gotten... Corporate feedback is mostly Bullshit! There's often a weird dating aspect here. Dude, face it the girl just isn't into you. Don't waste energy trying to figure it out, move on! > I’m running out of people I know and their connections... This is where Linkedin is actually useful. Jump on the advanced search feature. Zero-in on profiles of senior executives who you can help. Think local C…

I've never been able to take rejection well, as I have next to no self esteem. I am trying to just push it out of my mind but the nagging thought of "I'm really just terrible" keep coming back. I have done the LinkedIn method to a degree, but for places that I have already applied to. I also mostly looked for recruiters as I feel rude sending it to big important people at those companies.

> I also mostly looked for recruiters as I feel rude sending it to big important people at those companies.

Don't waste your time with Bozo recruiters. You'll find Big Important People often very receptive if your direct approach is sincere and buttoned-up.

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#36

How old are you? You still got a chance if you're under 35.

I am under 35, but I'm older than most of the people I've worked with. I hear mutterings of age discrimination on occasion throughout the community but I don't have any reason to believe that is happening to me.

Have all the people interviewing you been younger than you?

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am under 35, but I'm older than most of the people I've worked with. I hear mutterings of age discrimination on occasion throughout the community but I don't have any reason to believe that is happening to me.

Have all the people interviewing you been younger than you?

I'm notoriously bad at gauging age by looks. I believe some of the interviewers are younger than me but most seem roughly my age. The teams themselves do tend to be younger.

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#38
Any company will typically interview about 5 candidates for one open position. So statistically, after 5 interviews, it's no surprise that you didn't get an offer yet. But I'd say: after 5 more, I'd be surprised if you still didn't get one offer.

The hiring managers feedback you have been getting ("we just hired someone else") may be true.

Re: Ask HN: Is My Career Over?

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This so much. I feel envious you expects a job after a month looking. I often see people looking for work for 3+ months. Also I'd suggest making work for yourself in the meantime. Freelance or a side projects. Being 'employed' in some form, even if self manufactured, is often more attractive for prospective employers.

I didn't intend to sound entitled. I'm just terrified that I won't find something. I haven't been unemployed since starting my career, and you must admit that the usual line we hear is that "We Can't Find Enough Engineers!" and "Become A Programmer And Never Worry About Finding A Job!". From the comments here I see now that it isn't exactly true. I have tried to look through the online freelance marketplaces, but it…

> I'm just terrified that I won't find something.

That's good, serious, keep the terror, keep hungry. But also say honest to yourself, right? If a gig looks hinky pass it by.

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