Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 1001 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#291

Post by datavirtue »

notJim wrote: post #103
syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

> I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... In fact, this is so common that I can name the exact people at several jobs I've had. And I could mention them to my coworkers and they'd know exactly what these people's reputation are. Our feeling toward them is a mix of being impressed and being embarrassed. Impressed because there's something to be said for someone who works the system to their adv…

They used to be ambitious and they kept getting their hand smacked. They already did the things you think are "cool" a few times. Nothing left but slogging through bureaucratic busy work.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#292

Post by wonderwonder »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #280
wonderwonder wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears we live much of the same life. I work 3 to 4 hours a day at best, and part of that is the standup. Wife works hard for 8+ hours a day and makes a third of my salary. I want to be productive but I just cant seem to do more hours than that. Even those hours of work are broken up. "his mental state comes with an inability to use the rest of the work day. I spend it procrastinating - which is actually more tir…

of course, the obligatory thing to consider is AD(H)D - which I do suffer from. anyway - interesting that you "really like your employer". do you also like the product and the work environment? looking back though it didn't seem to matter much for my productivity either. liking my employer can even complicate things further because then I feel guilt.

I do like the product. Issue might be that I see no value in what I do, the work I am doing is not going to change the world or make it a better place. I have felt this way about every job I have ever had. It will leave no lasting mark. I would love to leave tech but unfortunately the salary acts as golden handcuffs. I essentially waste 8 hours a day sitting on a chair consuming internet garbage and its somewhat soul destroying.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#293

Post by throwaway1777 »

wccrawford wrote: post #177
throwaway1777 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is the compensation is not based on how hard you work but the value you provide and what the market will support. Of course upper management works roughly the same hours as everyone else, but they also have far more responsibility.

Actually, compensation is based on what the company has to pay . There are some other rules, like they have to (overall) pay less than they make from the output. But in general, a company never pays their employees more than they think they have to. 10x programmers don't make 10x the pay. They might make slightly more, but not even 2x what a 1x programmer (of the same level, no comparing seniors to juniors) makes at…

You’re not wrong, of course the company will pay the minimum it can get away with. My point was a bit broader regarding the market value between an executive versus a programmer.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#294

Post by oakfr »

ineptech wrote: post #168

Long time manager here. I call this "work-shy" and it is neither ubiquitous nor rare, I'd guess about 10%-20% of all employees, and it's certainly not unique to software or even to white-collar work. You should think of this as a problem. Even if it's not for your boss or your teammates (and it will be, eventually), it is for you. It is soul-crushing to fill up the hours. Two pieces of advice: 1) The "good" solution…

Experienced manager as well. I highly concur.

Sadly, the "good" solution is much harder to accomplish than one might think.

One way to address it is to take it from the People perspective. Are there people you've really enjoyed working with? Go talk to them, see what they work on, etc.

This may get you out of your current (deep) local minimum. Doing this on your own is really, really hard.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#295

Post by whateveracct »

jollybean wrote: post #247
cattown wrote: post #132

I've been a software engineer and managed software engineers for 20 years and worked in all kinds of businesses. This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Doing just as much work as your employer requires and no more is way less of a problem than employees who actively steal, commit fraud, bring drama and distract other team members, or are introducing defects because they've faked their…

" This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. " It's definitely not acceptable. It's a form of White Collar / 1st World Corruption. Taking money from people with expectation of value, while not providing that value is Fraud. Just because we don't always have great oversight, does not abnegate our responsibilities towards trying to do a good job. This notion of 'I Can Get Away With It' and '…

Nobody is being defrauded. It is at-will employment. If the employer is still willing to employ the dev working this much, everything is well above board.

At-will cuts a lot harder both ways when it's remote work ;)

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#297

Post by bennysomething »

cattown wrote: post #132

I've been a software engineer and managed software engineers for 20 years and worked in all kinds of businesses. This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Doing just as much work as your employer requires and no more is way less of a problem than employees who actively steal, commit fraud, bring drama and distract other team members, or are introducing defects because they've faked their…

What did you switch to? I keep thinking I want to be an electrician or carpenter

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#298

Post by ClumsyPilot »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #195
cattown wrote: post #132

I've been a software engineer and managed software engineers for 20 years and worked in all kinds of businesses. This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Doing just as much work as your employer requires and no more is way less of a problem than employees who actively steal, commit fraud, bring drama and distract other team members, or are introducing defects because they've faked their…

well put! I work in consulting for a large corporation and they pay for me more than 1000 Euro per day. I don't see much of that money but I can't really complain about my salary. It's pretty good (not SV-good, though). Now on average I'd say I work no more than 4 hours. Some days even less. Occasionally I feel proud of that and even brag about it to friends. But deep down I feel how this is just not making me happy.…

"My g/f earns about a third of what I do while actually working a tough, stressful job in full time"

There is only one thing i learned, life is deeply unfair, meritocracy is a myth, and noone knows why most things are the way they are.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#299

Post by zby »

I am kind of retired on the money I made from crypto - but now I am back at programming because I like it and also because I have an app idea that I like. Maybe it is a different situation - because I also still speculate and read about economy etc - but I cannot program more than maybe 15 hours a week. And also I am more productive when I take some time to sleep over the problems.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#300

Post by PragmaticPulp »

> There are literally days in which the only time I spend on my job is the few minutes it takes to attend the morning stand-up. Then I successfully bullshit my way through our next stand-up to hide my lack of production.

This is the key point that makes your situation problematic: You're actively deceiving your manager and peers.

Reasonable managers don't expect everyone to be in crunch mode all of the time, to produce 8 hours of work in an 8 hour day, or even to be productive every single day they were.

But they do expect you to make an honest effort, and to tell the truth about your progress. If you're going out of your way to feed them information to make yourself seem productive while doing as little as possible, that's a problem. It will catch up with you eventually, one way or another. They either know already, or they will know once they start looking more closely. Usually the people who aren't working are at the top of the list to be cut when layoffs are necessary.

Post reply on HN