Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#291

Post by ghaff » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 8:42 PM UTC

matchagaucho wrote: post #280

afarrell wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to focus on is teaching the skill to onboarding yourself into a new project. As an example, one part of that skill that I've learned from my current employer: It is actually socially acceptable to say "Hi, I've been working on $ticket recently and don't have a specific question but I feel rather lost. Could I grab 30 minutes on your calendar and you walk me through how SaltStack actually gets data values an…

During our interview process we attempt to quantify "Communication" as a trait; which includes "Ability to ask questions and clarify requirements." It really is an essential must have skill for remote workers. The ability to communicate visually and exhibit spatial intelligence through sharing screenshots and diagrams also goes a long way to being successful remotely. An open office has the benefit of whiteboards and…

>An open office has the benefit of whiteboards and pen/paper to do visual knowledge transfer.

Any face-to-face setting really.

I'm not sure why we haven't done a better job of cracking the "like a whiteboard (or flipchart or whatever) but for people who aren't in the same room" thing. I know it's partly a surface area thing but you'd think we could do better when it's such an obvious, at least to me, missing piece in remote interactions.

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#292

Post by ghaff » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #259

PeterStuer wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called 'hot-desking'. In practice everyone still sits in the same place every day, and sublimizes their territorial marking. Sitting in 'someone else's' spot is seriously frowned upon. This trend happened when the 'open plan' needed a next level of hell.

> This trend happened when the 'open plan' needed a next level of hell. I seem to remember Dilbert explaining this as a way to ensure employees felt more like company-owned sacks of potatoes than actual humans. Hot-desking really does seem like one of the most dehumanizing office designs I can think of. I know the supposed benefits of open offices, but I'm not even sure what hot-desking claims to achieve? Except in c…

>not even sure what hot-desking claims to achieve

It's mostly for environments in which the company's short on space and a lot of employees don't routinely come into the office. Hot desking eliminates permanently provisioning office space that may be only used for one day in five or ten.

If that's not the problem being solved, I'm not sure what is. Now no one knows where anyone is sitting and teams are at least theoretically all scattered around.

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#293

Post by tschwimmer » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:17 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #259

PeterStuer wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called 'hot-desking'. In practice everyone still sits in the same place every day, and sublimizes their territorial marking. Sitting in 'someone else's' spot is seriously frowned upon. This trend happened when the 'open plan' needed a next level of hell.

> This trend happened when the 'open plan' needed a next level of hell. I seem to remember Dilbert explaining this as a way to ensure employees felt more like company-owned sacks of potatoes than actual humans. Hot-desking really does seem like one of the most dehumanizing office designs I can think of. I know the supposed benefits of open offices, but I'm not even sure what hot-desking claims to achieve? Except in c…

Hot desking (or Hoteling as I've heard it called) makes a lot of sense for the headquarters office of traveling consultants. These folks are usually at the client's location Monday-Thursday and back at their local headquarters on Friday. However, there's a huge amount of variation in terms of travel scheduling so having an assigned desk doesn't make much sense. For example, consider a consultant living in LA who's working on a project in the Chicago suburbs. Most Fridays are spent working from LA (either at the office or at home), but sometimes you'll need to take meetings with Chicago people. Hot desking makes it easy to find a place to work for the day because all the Chicago people that are working from home or are at a remote office aren't taking up desks.

For permanent non-traveling roles, I don't immediately see the advantage though.

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#294

Post by geekbird » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:26 PM UTC

dcchambers wrote: post #178

When I worked in academia (working for a high throughout computing research group at a large state university) we all had our own offices. I don't know if individual offices are all that common any more due to space issues at universities, but I think they're almost all shared offices or cubes at worst. I've never seen an open office plan at a University. I work in healthcare now and share a "large" office with 3 oth…

Stanford University is moving toward an open plan office setup when it moves its IT staff to Redwood City next year. (Professors, of course, still get offices. So do managers.) Some buildings are already open plan. This is very bad for morale, or course, and very problematic for people who work with PII or PHI. It's a good thing that there is a medical center branch on the grounds, because illnesses will go up too.

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#295

Post by blattimwind » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #260

ekimekim wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that would be 36m^2. If it helps, think of a grid of 1m by 1m tiles laid out on the floor. How many tiles could you fit?

I always thought it was "4 metres squared" means 4x4 and "4 square metres" means 2x2. Unless 4m^2 doesn't mean "4 metres squared", which would really be confusing me ...

6² m² = (6m)² != 6 m²

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#296

Post by majewsky » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #260

ekimekim wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that would be 36m^2. If it helps, think of a grid of 1m by 1m tiles laid out on the floor. How many tiles could you fit?

I always thought it was "4 metres squared" means 4x4 and "4 square metres" means 2x2. Unless 4m^2 doesn't mean "4 metres squared", which would really be confusing me ...

Exponentiation usually binds more tightly than multiplication, so

  6 m² = 6 * (m²) != (6 m)²

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#297

Post by geekbird » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #92

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has gotten to the point where I'm seriously considering just working from home every day, even though that's strictly not allowed. Open-plan offices are absolutely maddening, I get pulled out of my thoughts constantly, and there's no effective way to shut it out. Earplugs aren't enough, and with headphones I would have to play music so loudly it would be annoying my colleagues, just in order to cut out the constan…

You might try earplugs and earmuffs at the same time. It's a pretty effective level of sound isolation.

Some people, like me, can only wear headphones or earplugs for a short period of time - like 2 hours - before they develop ear infections.

Furthermore, administrative controls (headphones) for what is actually a safety and health problem (excess noise) are the solution of last resort from a health and safety perspective. A good health and safety person would advise structural mitigation, not forcing everyone to put on personal protective equipment (headphones.)

When open plan offices can regularly burst up to 95 dB (yes, I took in a meter and measured the last one I was in) and are often 65 dB when they are "quiet", noise is absolutely a health and safety issue. Constant noise, even if not immediately damaging to hearing, can cause increased stress and other physiological issues.

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#298

Post by geekbird » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

ghostcluster wrote: post #61

blabla_blublu wrote: post #2

Several teams in Apple don't have an open floor plan. They pair two individuals in an office.

Except that the gigantic multibillion dollar new space ring was explicitly designed around big open office units, long tables with bench seating , and the 'privacy pods' are exposed clear glass on all sides..

Yuck. That sounds like hell. You can't pair/team with another person if your neighbor is literally an armlength away.

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#299

Post by geekbird » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #64

Where I have found open floor to be fine is small companies of 5-15 people, as long as there are quite corners to retreat to. There are some collaboration advantages to open plan, and I feel that for some (small) size, these can outweigh the distraction and blender-brain effect. I always wonder why people don't split the difference, chop up the big company office into 5-10 person mini open plan offices.

I've always thought that the idea of a "team room" with mini cubicles around a central whiteboard and gathering space would be a good compromise. People could do heads down in cubes, the team as a whole could close their door at crunch time, but people could meet, collaborate and brainstorm when they needed to.

Re: Ask HN: What are some tech companies that do not use an open floor plan?

#300

Post by geekbird » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:47 PM UTC

VLM wrote: post #179

jrootabega wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have no idea (or have forgotten) what doing Dev work is like. Their jobs are basically distraction, so to them there's no problem.

Its a social hierarchy thing; its baked into the cake of the architecture of the office. Something like: We don't care about the message it sends that "concentration workers" are prevented from working by the very architecture of the office yet we support "distraction workers". I guess "concentration workers" are a lower caste at that company and they find it amusing to enforce that value judgement. It is exactly lik…

Bingo.

The first time I got moved from an office to an open plan it felt like exactly what it was: a severe demotion. I was being told that I didn't rate an office or even a cube and the ability to concentrate without being interrupted like a low level clerical worker.