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Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

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Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#281

Post by humbleferret »

jacobbank wrote: post #18

I've had mostly good experiences doing this across two startups. The biggest challenge I've seen is the awkwardness around people who have previously been peers now being stacked in a hierarchy. The best way I've found to get around this is to think about your career as a long road where roles can change e.g. "You're working for me now, but next time I may be working for you". I had a former manager and friend work f…

In your experiences where you've occupied different levels in the organisational hierarchy with a peer/friend, how did this impact your relationship with them?

For example, when you moved from being a peer to a position lower in the hierarchy, did this alter the nature of your friendship? And similarly, what changes occurred when the roles were reversed?

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#282

Post by wruza »

Not gonna share a long story, but be aware of one important nuance: your conversations with a friend founder may make you think that there’s more than there is in your position, now or in the future, or in general. It’s easy to tune into “the vibe” when you’re close, but keep your situation real and theirs only hypothetical. I lost too many years to it and left (myself, after a therapist opened my eyes). A year later the company decided to resurrect a promising project I worked on and came to me with an open offer. Turned out they couldn’t meet my pretty decent expectations (I still help the guy who does it, no grudge). All these we/growth-mindset talks were wishful thinking, sometimes just babble, on both sides.

We didn’t end up being enemies, and I don’t feel betrayed or something, but not sure if there’s anything left to talk about either, cause almost all his talks are full of that reality-distortion overconfidence. Cannot unsee and got enough. Okay about him, but pretty negative about all these years that I could spend on something better to me.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#283

Post by mooreds »

humbleferret wrote: post #280
mooreds wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing a small project together before you commit is a good idea for all cofounders, in my opinion. If it doesn't work when almost nothing is at stake, it won't work when there's more at stake.

This opinion is significantly undervalued. It appears that individuals often invest far more diligence and scrutiny in choosing cars, electronics, partners, and properties than they do in selecting a co-founder.

As I've heard before, founding a company is like marriage without the sex. You really are legally bound together, as well as emotionally and socially (to a lesser extent).

As you'd expect, founder divorces can get messy.

I think it is best for founders to discuss it before they start the company. Hash out the exit plan, have those hard conversations, write it all down and agree to it. Sign it, then put it away, start building the companu, and hope you never have to use it.

But if you do; if people's situations or desires change, then you've got the path forward for an exit. You don't have to make one up on the fly after the company is worth something and emotions are high.

Source: been a founder, been a team member who watched some founder divorces from a distance

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#284

Post by solardev »

mercenario wrote: post #224
xrd wrote: post #31

It definitely ruined a friendship of mine. His startup was making insane amounts of money. He offered me a position, then his business priorities changed and forced me into a poor role with no long term prospects. I struggled in that new role and he noticed that. He then terminated our agreement two months early. There are reasons he's right about what he did and there are reasons I'm right about being upset about it…

On one side you were a employee, so he needs to treat you kinda like a regular employee. If what he did to you would be normal for another employee, then he has a point. Doing different could even be seem as unfair for the other employees. On the other side you are a friend, I really don't know what he could have done differently, very hard.

Wouldn't the right thing to have done for any employee, friend or not, be to simply pay them the remaining two months but let them go early?

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#285

Post by dmorin »

A lifetime ago, circa 1994, a friend asked if I wanted to get into this up and coming World Wide Web thing. I said sure. There were 3 founders, and each hired a friend, so three employees. I think actually one of the employees was only ever a consultant.

We were funded by an existing company - an insurance agency. I think the thing lasted maybe 8 weeks? Primary founder of the startup had issues with the owner of the insurance agency over intellectual property. I was told by my friend all of this was coming in advance. I was given the chance to stay working for the main agency after all the founders quit. I quit with them.

But it was a ridiculously early foot in the door for doing web stuff, which I've done ever since. Before that I was doing medical devices. Definitely don't regret it.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#286

Post by humbleferret »

mooreds wrote: post #283
humbleferret wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This opinion is significantly undervalued. It appears that individuals often invest far more diligence and scrutiny in choosing cars, electronics, partners, and properties than they do in selecting a co-founder.

As I've heard before, founding a company is like marriage without the sex. You really are legally bound together, as well as emotionally and socially (to a lesser extent). As you'd expect, founder divorces can get messy. I think it is best for founders to discuss it before they start the company. Hash out the exit plan, have those hard conversations, write it all down and agree to it. Sign it, then put it away, start…

I share your perspective and couldn't agree more.

Have a plan to fail, before you plan to start.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#287

Post by robertlagrant »

machomaster wrote: post #271
robertlagrant wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental difference is just that you think that the technical competency has been established, and the hiring manager did not. Given the candidate did the exercise, but did it badly, I think the hiring manager was right. None of the other stuff you're saying is relevant. No point doing armchair psychoanalysis.

The only thing the candidate did wrong was to even start the assignment. Either communicate that it is a waste of time and refuse to do it, or decide to do it and do it properly. No point in half-assing anything in life.

Indeed. That's why the HR person (or whoever it was) wasn't on a fireable ego trip. They just enforced their normal process that they use to not let people slip in through nepotism.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#288

Post by robertlagrant »

machomaster wrote: post #275
VirusNewbie wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was a hiring manager who set up a hiring process to evaluate candidates, and someone did poorly on it but the CEO came and said "no no, hire this person anyway, I know they failed but it's fine" I would quit.

If I were a CEO trying to build a successful company and found a willing competent worker, whose hiring would fail because of the hiring manager's ego and inability to adapt and do what's right, I would consider it a purposeful sabotage and would fire the drag-downer.

You keep assuming ego. No ego is required to make sure people are put through the same hiring process.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#289

Post by machomaster »

robertlagrant wrote: post #287
machomaster wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing the candidate did wrong was to even start the assignment. Either communicate that it is a waste of time and refuse to do it, or decide to do it and do it properly. No point in half-assing anything in life.

Indeed. That's why the HR person (or whoever it was) wasn't on a fireable ego trip. They just enforced their normal process that they use to not let people slip in through nepotism.

The process that they designed. This means they can change it and the excuse "I am simply following the pre-determined process" will not work.

Clearly, the process (of cutting technically incompetent people while letting through the technically competent ones) is not working properly; that alone is fireable incompetency ("You had only one job and you failed at it!").

Another fireable thing is that HR does not understand that they are under the CEO, they are implementing the CEO's vision, in the way he envisioned. But instead of that, HR is indeed ego-tripping.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#290

Post by quickthrower2 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #163

One of my favorite quotes is attributed to Saint Augustine: "If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, don't accept, because you will lose one friend; on the other hand, if two strangers come with the same request, accept, because you will gain one friend." It sort of applies, here, as well.

The friend you gain will be a fairweather friend though, most likely.

If the person you disagrees with becomes your friend then that’s a good sign!

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