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Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

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Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#281
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never worked in such an environment myself but I imagine it feels something like soldiers feel following a leader who feels like he knows what he's doing. It's the feeling of shared hardship and shared experience and it creates culture of driving to follow the leader. I imagine Elon Musk (at least used to, not sure if he still does) cause the same experience in employees. That's the sense you get when you read b…

Yep, Alexander and Genghis conquered huge ands because of their leadership, not because they were nice guys.

Genghis is a bad example here… He conquered for what?

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#282
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than once, Steve did cut some projects that were close to finish and you just had to go along since no one had a say in it, except Steve. You know, this is actually a rather good thing. So many companies are just bloated with projects that they want to see through just to see them through and they make zero sense in the grand scheme of the company. If you have a single person responsible for everything that ca…

This is why Sundar is a nice guy but shit CEO.

>This is why Sundar is a nice guy but shit CEO.

Sadly this was not the sentiment at the time when Google announced their new CEO.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never worked in such an environment myself but I imagine it feels something like soldiers feel following a leader who feels like he knows what he's doing. It's the feeling of shared hardship and shared experience and it creates culture of driving to follow the leader. I imagine Elon Musk (at least used to, not sure if he still does) cause the same experience in employees. That's the sense you get when you read b…

I don't think people spray painting parts no one in the public will ever see feel like their leader is on the ball. They probably feel like they're at the whims of an unreasonable narcissist who can erase their weekend and generally make them miserable for no reason whatsoever.

“When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#284
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people spray painting parts no one in the public will ever see feel like their leader is on the ball. They probably feel like they're at the whims of an unreasonable narcissist who can erase their weekend and generally make them miserable for no reason whatsoever.

“When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”

You're suggesting asking people to work into the night to make an aesthetic change that will benefit no customers, that will not make the workplace friendlier or more productive, and that you may never even lay eyes on again, is craftsmanship? I would suggest its authoritarian control for it's own sake. To make people work to your arbitrary and unknowable criteria for no other reason than to exercise your power over them and to make them understand that that is your arrangement together.

Additionally silver brackets aren't inferior, like plywood. This is more like the craftsman chewed you out for using Phillips screws instead of flatheads for your table, because the craftsman feels that Phillips are for bookcases and flatheads are for tables.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#285

I was there in 1999 as OS X was being developed, and the beta was just about to be released. I was building another product that was released at MacWorld in 2000 (and still exists today)! I have a lot of funny stories. Steve didn't like our data center rack mounts being silver, we had to pull them all out and spray paint them black, because silver just wasn't acceptable, in a datacenter. That was my first day at work…

Buried deep in this thread, ksec quoted Jobs: "When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”

It's also analogous to a batter who doesn't stop his swing right after the moment he hits (or misses) the ball; he follows through. Because having the attitude of always following through, even when it seemingly no longer matters, increases the number and range of hits.

In response to the ksec's Jobs quote, maxbond said: "You're suggesting asking people to work into the night to make an aesthetic change that will benefit no customers, that will not make the workplace friendlier or more productive, and that you may never even lay eyes on again, is craftsmanship? I would suggest its authoritarian control for it's own sake."

The proof is in the pudding. Jobs exhibited extremely unusual, 1-in-10,000, seemingly odd, useless behavior in making the painting demand. Is it really nothing but pure coincidence that the same individual had the extremely unusual, 1-in-10,000 achievement of taking a company that was on its deathbed, arguably in its last throes, and turning it into one of the largest, most successful and influential companies in the world?

No, it is not. That doesn't mean it's worth it to the individual workers who had to do that work. Clearly, in many cases, including ksec's, it was not. But was it was worth it to the company and its shareholders? Yes.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#286
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world needs to know more about HyperCard 3. I wish some kind person would throw a development version up online for us plebs to explore. It would be great to know and see what it was going to be all about!

I couldn't agree more. HyperCard changed the world, and it's a tragedy that it was abandoned. The idea that QuickTime¹ would be the runtime for HyperCard 3² — or from a different perspective, that HyperCard stacks would be just another media type — was extremely clever. We'd³ previously experimented with specific interactive functionality, but QTi generalized interactive media capabilities in a technically-interestin…

I'm still hoping that some hero out there has a copy of HyperCard 3 alpha on a computer somewhere, and might be willing to upload it...

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#287

I was there in 1999 as OS X was being developed, and the beta was just about to be released. I was building another product that was released at MacWorld in 2000 (and still exists today)! I have a lot of funny stories. Steve didn't like our data center rack mounts being silver, we had to pull them all out and spray paint them black, because silver just wasn't acceptable, in a datacenter. That was my first day at work…

So what was his problem with two button mice anyway?

Too confusing for a first-time computer user or a small child.

Having two small kids myself, I agree one button would be better for learning.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#288
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The guy had a vision that seems unparalleled. Yet, he asked a group of software developers to paint a data center rack mount because "it wasn't acceptable" and made people work until 3am (even though numerous studies state that this doesn't make people more productive). One can call him "visionary" all they want, but the work environment he created doesn't sound exactly utopian. Do the ends really justify the means…

Well, it can be looked at in more ways than one. Maybe he was just a jerk, or perhaps he was giving an object lesson. Details matter and the boss was paying attention. You decide.

> You decide.

I did. Steve Jobs is survivorship bias at its finest. I've met and interviewed plenty of "detail orientated" bosses and not all of them create trillion dollar entities.

> Maybe he was just a jerk, or perhaps he was giving an object lesson.

1. There is no legitimate reason to make a server rack a different color.

2. Making people work until 3am isn't a lesson. It ignores all studies that suggest that depriving people of sleep makes them less productive.

Moving an icon 10 pixels...okay maybe I get it. There is some practical utility in that for an end-user and it teaches development teams the importance of why the details matter. However this is probably my biggest gripes with the stories about Jobs. My interpretation is that he was inconsistently diligent and was only detail orientated for "details matter" sake, but not always the right details.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#289
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Sundar is a nice guy but shit CEO.

Well he did cut Stadia, which had a sizable team working on it.

Stadia should either not have been released, or vastly better supported. Sundar took the middle route of saying yes to the idea, then letting the accountants run it into the ground. Worst of all worlds.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#290
post #282
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Sundar is a nice guy but shit CEO.

>This is why Sundar is a nice guy but shit CEO. Sadly this was not the sentiment at the time when Google announced their new CEO.

He’s a ghost, the company has zero vision.

Meta is a shitshow, but I’ll give Zuck credit for at least have A vision of *something*.

Sundars vision is to keep Larry and Sergei’s money machine humming along. That’s it. That’s the goal, cover the costs of the founders private islands by letting the CFO make all the real decisions

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