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Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#281

Post by dsr_ »

Dr_ReD wrote: post #253
dsr_ wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this possible? It's easy. Let's pretend you have a smartphone and a computer. Take the phone, and look at every application that you actually use. Make sure that application can be used on a web browser and you have the credentials stored in a password manager. Transfer your cell number to a VOIP service. Find your carrier and cancel your contract or autopay or whatever. Now shut off the phone, and leave it in…

Then you discover your bank, your credit card, your shopping mall, watsapp, gmail, facebook and grinder, all have blacklisted sms to VOIP numbers and also, they're phasing out SMS support anyway... So you'll need all their own specific apps anyway... And both your neighbourhood burger king or the whole airport in which you just landed, won't let you order food without a phone, an app and a qr-code... And then you liv…

I've never used an app from my bank. They have a website.

My credit card has a website. I don't store my card on my phone. It's a card, I carry it around in a wallet.

Why would I need an app for a shopping mall? I was in a mall last year, because that's where the LEGO Store is.

I've never used Watsapp.

Gmail is a website. Facebook is a website. Never used a dating app.

I don't need to use an application to get to Burger King, I have feet and cash.

My credit cards work in Italy. Anywhere there's an MC, Visa, Amex or Discover logo, I've got something that will work.

Pushing back starts with refusing to do stupid things just because all your friends are doing it.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#282

Post by alldayeveryday »

cassianoleal wrote: post #233
alldayeveryday wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argumentation is myopic. I'm not seeing anyone making excuses. I'm seeing people face the realities that few systems (if any) are without single points of failure. Take the mobile app dependency away from banking. Then what? There's a dependency on having a computer. A dependency on having power and internet. Why did the banking system build around these single points of failure? The reality of system design dic…

> Take the mobile app dependency away from banking. Then what? There's a dependency on having a computer. A computer, but not necessarily the one authorised computer. You can use a public one in a library, a friend's, your employer's, etc. Not the same as your own and only authorised smartphone. > A dependency on having power and internet. This is honestly not even an argument, and they're not a SPOF. Both the power…

> Again, it's not. The smartphone is used as a single authorised device. Gasoline works regardless of which station you purchase it from. Out of petrol? Fill it up at the nearby station and carry on. Or preferably, don't let it run out in the first place.

A mobile phone works regardless of which store you purchase it from. Lost your phone? Pickup a new one at a nearby store and carry on. Or preferably, don't lose it in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#283

Post by tzs »

Dr_ReD wrote: post #184
guywithahat wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying we should have wasted billions manufacturing extra chips just in case there was a shortage and consumers didn't want to wait a year before buying a new car/truck?

Not wasted. Stocked by automakers, for their own use. Car manufacturers have the nasty habit of keeping no stock —at all— even of inexpensive stuff like microchips, smd components, nuts, bolts... and ordering everything "just in time", while at the same time maintaining a steel-fisted strangle-hold on suppliers which are obliged to provide them what's needed when, or die.

Someone should probably have a stock, but it is not clear to me that it should be the automakers.

For those components that are used by multiple different automakers (and others) wouldn't it make more sense for the component manufacturers to be the ones stocking?

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#284

Post by lillecarl »

masklinn wrote: post #35
arenaninja wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you use Bitwarden for TOTP? I already use it for my passwords but for TOTP I have multiple apps and I hate it

Yes. There’s an “Authenticator Key (TOTP)” field. Been there for several years. It also supports SteamGuard TOTP.

But steam really doesn't want you to get the key, I soft-failed when I tried. Fuck custom authentication apps, totp is good enough for me thanks

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#285

Post by cassianoleal »

alldayeveryday wrote: post #282
cassianoleal wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take the mobile app dependency away from banking. Then what? There's a dependency on having a computer. A computer, but not necessarily the one authorised computer. You can use a public one in a library, a friend's, your employer's, etc. Not the same as your own and only authorised smartphone. > A dependency on having power and internet. This is honestly not even an argument, and they're not a SPOF. Both the power…

> Again, it's not. The smartphone is used as a single authorised device. Gasoline works regardless of which station you purchase it from. Out of petrol? Fill it up at the nearby station and carry on. Or preferably, don't let it run out in the first place. A mobile phone works regardless of which store you purchase it from. Lost your phone? Pickup a new one at a nearby store and carry on. Or preferably, don't lose it…

Again, a mobile phone works regardless of where you purchase it. Your banking systems, etc are not authorised to a mobile phone, though. They're authorised to the one mobile phone that was authenticated.

It's not enough to buy a new phone. You need to contact every single service that's bound to the lost/stolen/broken phone and authorise the new one before you can use their services.

In the case of the car, it's enough to just fill up the tank with petrol purchased anywhere. It's ready to carry on at that point.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#286

Post by brokenmachine »

southerntofu wrote: post #276
guywithahat wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying we should have wasted billions manufacturing extra chips just in case there was a shortage and consumers didn't want to wait a year before buying a new car/truck?

I'm personally ashamed that auto manufacturers are destroying the environment and making life difficult for all electronics manufacturers because they want to embed literally hundreds of micro-controllers into cars, just so that they can make it break when one single component fails. This MCH speaker suggests 3 micro-controllers is all it takes to build a fully functional and road-safe electric car, and explains the…

>just so that they can make it break when one single component fails.

No, it's also so they can do really important stuff like remotely disabling your heated seats.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#287

Post by alldayeveryday »

cassianoleal wrote: post #285
alldayeveryday wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, it's not. The smartphone is used as a single authorised device. Gasoline works regardless of which station you purchase it from. Out of petrol? Fill it up at the nearby station and carry on. Or preferably, don't let it run out in the first place. A mobile phone works regardless of which store you purchase it from. Lost your phone? Pickup a new one at a nearby store and carry on. Or preferably, don't lose it…

Again, a mobile phone works regardless of where you purchase it. Your banking systems, etc are not authorised to a mobile phone , though. They're authorised to the one mobile phone that was authenticated . It's not enough to buy a new phone. You need to contact every single service that's bound to the lost/stolen/broken phone and authorise the new one before you can use their services. In the case of the car, it's en…

Not clear your meaning. Are you referring to the mobile phone being used during 2FA auth flows? In this case, the authorization is not to a device but rather to a number on the cellular network. You can swap devices without your bank knowing and without disrupting your authorization. Are you referring to mobile banking apps? If so, again, the bank is not authorizing an individual device. The authorization is a sign in session on the app. You can swap phones and download the app very easily without contacting the bank.

> It's not enough to buy a new phone. You need to contact every single service that's bound to the lost/stolen/broken phone and authorize the new one before you can use their services.

Are you referring to changing phone numbers maybe? If so, that is a totally different topic from OP and also from my comments.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#289

Post by bdougherty »

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #118

it's crazy when museums don't give out paper maps and expect you to use your smartphone - https://twitter.com/austinkleon/status/1556466475354963968 there are old folks who aren't that tech-savvy, and smartphones + plans are not that cheap or free in the US, we still have some extreme poverty, penetration is not 100%, if you're going to make smartphone a requirement to participate in society there really need to be s…

Amusement parks are doing this now too and it's even crazier because many of them will not allow you to have your phone anywhere on your person while on the rides.
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