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Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

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Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#281

Post by TimPC »

dsr_ wrote: post #278
TimPC wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a legitimate problem though that schools and daycares operate predominantly on a five day schedule now that works for a large number of workers. If we go to a model where we have something resembling a 50/50 split between longer 4-day work weeks and shorter 5-day work weeks we end up with a huge problem in how to schedule services so that they work for the majority of people. There will be overwhelming p…

I can't help but feel that you are arguing that it would be hard on everyone if the current standard was not maintained, while ignoring that the current standard is not maintained. Here are occupations that generally don't have a M-F 9-5 work cycle right now: police, firefighters, the vast majority of people who work in healthcare including nurses and doctors, restaurants, hospitality, janitorial, retail sales, plumb…

I actually prefer a four day school week and four day work week as a standard I just don’t think it’s easy to have multiple simultaneous standards.

I get that not all jobs are M-F 9-5 workloads. But I also know a number of people report substantial hardships of not having that schedule in those jobs. I don’t think we want to make school no longer correspond to the default work week by having two default work weeks unless we want all people on the wrong default to add those problems to their jobs.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#282

Post by exabrial »

mcv wrote: post #230
wbsss4412 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they just explained it in their comment… your coworkers are your friends. I think the flip side of what you’re saying is, why would you not want to be friends with the people you spend 8+ hours a day with during the workweek?

And if you get fired, you get fired from being friends with them too? I certainly want to be able to get along with my coworkers, but it's not quite the same thing as being friends. There are few former coworkers that I keep in touch with after I leave a job. I tend to have my friends outside work. And my family too.

Are you certain the concept of "Getting fired" exists in the way you perceive it over there?

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#283

Post by [deleted] »

TameAntelope wrote: post #254
paulsutter wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link doesn't demonstrate that all people learn in the same way, merely tries to debunk a specific/narrow set of learning styles (that seem bizarre in the first place)

Here are a few better sources. "Learning styles" are not established science, by any means. https://career.ucsf.edu/sites/g/files/tkssra2771/f/Article%2... https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA628405045&sid=googleS... https://poorvucenter.yale.edu/LearningStylesMyth https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/the-myth... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-...

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#284

Post by hgs3 »

missedthecue wrote: post #268
hgs3 wrote: post #125

Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think a four day work week is radical enough. A web developer today is easily 5x more productive than a web developer 30 years ago: we have off the shelf databases, frameworks, and a huge ecosystem of open source libraries. If I can produce the same output as a web developer 30 years ago, but at 1/5th the time, then why am I not working 1 day a week for the same pay? What’s the point of m…

I don't understand why you deserve a huge raise in pay because someone else developed an off-the-shelf database. Investments into capital and tech go to the investor, not to you. That would be a complete mis-alignment of incentives. Why would anyone invent, develop, pay for, or work on improvements if all the benefits went to you? Should accountants have gotten massive raises across the board when Microsoft Excel was…

> Investments into capital and tech go to the investor, not to you.

I hear what you're saying about investors needing a return on their investment, but investors only exist because modern human society runs on money and the people doing the real work don't have enough of it. Human beings will naturally develop tools and technology with or without money or investors because doing so improves our lives. The problem with our modern world is we are no longer building tools to improve our life, but rather turn a profit. Any "improvements" we've had are merely a side effect of the unnatural need for money rather than a better life. I'd argue we'd see more innovation if people had more free time to innovate rather than waste their lives in corporate slavery.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#285

Post by ravenstine »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #31
Apreche wrote: post #24

Why not both? 4 days, 6 hours each. Hey employers reading this. Having a hard time finding software engineers? Offer me this and I will come running. I’ll be banging on your door with my resume. Think about it.

Yeah “trouble finding talent” and yet it is the tired old 2010s Google perks being offered. Cheap/free food, couches and pingpong. Offer low tech debt and good hours and get a queue form!

> Offer low tech debt

A company that actually takes tech debt seriously is worth it's weight in gold.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#286

Post by missedthecue »

hgs3 wrote: post #284
missedthecue wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you deserve a huge raise in pay because someone else developed an off-the-shelf database. Investments into capital and tech go to the investor, not to you. That would be a complete mis-alignment of incentives. Why would anyone invent, develop, pay for, or work on improvements if all the benefits went to you? Should accountants have gotten massive raises across the board when Microsoft Excel was…

> Investments into capital and tech go to the investor, not to you. I hear what you're saying about investors needing a return on their investment, but investors only exist because modern human society runs on money and the people doing the real work don't have enough of it. Human beings will naturally develop tools and technology with or without money or investors because doing so improves our lives. The problem wit…

you don't think something like Microsoft Excel improves people's lives?

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#287

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

exabrial wrote: post #282
mcv wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you get fired, you get fired from being friends with them too? I certainly want to be able to get along with my coworkers, but it's not quite the same thing as being friends. There are few former coworkers that I keep in touch with after I leave a job. I tend to have my friends outside work. And my family too.

Are you certain the concept of "Getting fired" exists in the way you perceive it over there?

Is this question more than rhetorical? Because the answer is non-obvious to a Westerner like me.

Surely there exists a scenario where the company tells an employee "we no longer want you to do anything for us, we will no longer pay you, and you will no longer have access to the building", in that scenario it does sound like they're losing a large part of the people in their life?

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#288

Post by 1123581321 »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #173

Here's an idea: "roller coaster week" Monday: 4 hours Tuesday: 6 hours Wednesday: 10 hours Thursday: 6 hours Friday: 4 hours total: 30 hours How it works: - Monday: The second half of your day is work. Your morning is open to sleep in, get chores done, run errands, eat brunch with friends. Second half of the day should be meetings to plan the work for the week, and catch up from the previous week. - Tuesday: Very few…

1-2-12-6-1 and I’m in.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#289

Post by hgs3 »

missedthecue wrote: post #286
hgs3 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Investments into capital and tech go to the investor, not to you. I hear what you're saying about investors needing a return on their investment, but investors only exist because modern human society runs on money and the people doing the real work don't have enough of it. Human beings will naturally develop tools and technology with or without money or investors because doing so improves our lives. The problem wit…

you don't think something like Microsoft Excel improves people's lives?

If I worked in an office 9-5 making 5 paper spreadsheets for $100 a day and with Microsoft Excel I sit in the same office 9-5 making 50 spreadsheets at $100 a day, then no it did not make my life better. Excel may have allowed me to churn out more spreadsheets, but my paycheck hasn't increased and I'm still working the same hours. The only one reaping the benefits of my extra productivity are the fat cats.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#290

Post by elevaet »

teekert wrote: post #179
elevaet wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To further complicate matters, different fields of work have different optimal working styles/cycles as well. I did some very physical seasonal work for about a decade where most of us would work about 3 months of the year, very intensely. After years of experimentation, the boss of the finest company in this industry figured out that a 3 day on, 1 day off cycle worked best for productivity and morale. This cycle gav…

This also depends on age, i.e., it sounds like I'd need 1 day on, 2 days off for this type of work ;)

I probably would too, at this point!
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