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Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

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Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, but why is the culture and aesthetic of computers inherently trashy? Look at all the fields where superior quality is a completely natural criterion (whether it exists may be another question): Watches, cars, pens, paper notebooks, furniture, fashion, jewellery, architecture, bikes, coffee machines ... What's more - if you look at the visual representations of computers - i.e. marketing material, art, illus…

Computer design aesthetics are a relatively new concept and not one that’s deeply explored or appreciated, and certainly not at the level of other physical designs (cars, watches, clothing, so on). I think many of us here really appreciate the beauty of Cray Mainframes and Apple hardware, but computers are so associated with work and utilitarianism, I think they’ve often been overlooked for their value as design piec…

Aesthetics vs utility if a perfectly fine debate to have. Everyone is going to fall at different places.

The question is why you don’t seem to have a choice of quality. It’s basically seems to be quite high (Apple), or somewhere between crap and acceptable.

Where are the very high PCs? The nice PCs? The good PCs? There aren’t many, they’re basically niche.

I don’t have much experience with recent PCs. Most of it has been quite bad. Even the relatively well spec’ed Windows laptops at work are sad (despite decent reviews).

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#282
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound that materials make when handling them? About flickering in software? About inconsistent spacing? About janky color combinations? I think Microsoft's Surface lineup has been making good strides on that front, but they still have a long way to go.

> Surface lineup has been making good strides Making laptops and tablets was anecdotally a business MSFT didn't particularly want to be in but the OEM options for business workplace were that embarrassing the bar had to be raised by someone.

That’s why I had heard they entered the market as well. But that basically proves the point of the original question doesn’t it.

And it seems even Microsoft’s “people should be aspiring to this, come on OEMs do better“ models have plenty of problems.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#283
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has the same problem. In college, we'd bring our own mice to the computer labs because it was better than the buttonless Apple mice they had there. Even today, the input devices have been IMO Apple's weak spot and the main reason I stayed away from MacBooks. I had a MBP, 2019 I believe. It was riddled with problems. True Tone color was wrong. Flickering on the display. The weird internet connectivity which ofte…

The Touch Bar was a good idea. Replacing the F-keys with it was a _terrible_ idea. If they would've just added the bar above the normal F-keys, everyone would've either embraced or ignored it. But taking away function keys was just too much for pretty much everyone - especially ESC (which they rectified in a later iteration).

I actually think normal users would be fine or even happy with it instead of the F keys.

But it was expensive. So it was only all the more expensive models, the ones that professionals and programmers used. And a lot of them hated it.

I don’t mind it that much personally. My work laptop has one and it can be nice on occasion. But when I switch to a laptop that doesn’t have one I don’t miss it at all.

(I have the hardware escape key. I think without that it would truly drive me nuts.)

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's taste and the ways they do things makes you love / hate your experience and your judgement of whether you should buy their product. The company is position as "we know what's best for you" and you can see this along their product line. General PC makers have a carefree attitude where here is what you want and they will give you the specs and it works however you want. Which means sometimes you will have to de…

> General PC makers have a carefree attitude where here is what you want and they will give you the specs and it works however you want. Which means sometimes you will have to deal with managing your own experience. You can't get whatever you want though. You can't get a machine with remotely the look and feel of a MBP. You have lots and lots of mediocre choices and no really good ones.

A MBP is one thing. Sometimes there are machines that are in the ballpark. _Nothing_ comes close to the value proposition of the M1 Air.

Obviously you can get PCs that are way cheaper. I found one for $150. Apple can’t touch that.

But for $1000 you get an amazing screen, fantastic performance, unbelievable battery life, and absolutely no moving parts. All in a very light and thin case. You can get some of those qualities but nowhere near all.

All the more amazing given Apple’s legendary margins. PC makers can’t get close despite making less money on each unit.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#286

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

> Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound that materials make when handling them? About flickering in software? About inconsistent spacing? About janky color combinations? To me, these details are less desirable, but the operating system and the way in which I utilize the computer to work and get shit done matters more. The niceness…

I get that you prefer Linux or Windows. That’s completely fair.

But that shouldn’t be a trade-off. You should be able to have your OS and a nicely constructed laptop.

I got the impression the original post was more about quality than aesthetics (which are always up to personal taste).

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#287
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or materials that look grimy/grubby from use and wear (e.g. Thinkpad touchpads). My go-to has been to run Windows (best OS) on Mac laptops (best hardware), but with M1, it looks like this will no longer be an option. Hoping for some magic cross-architecture emulation.

With ARM adoption it might again be an option. I'm using Windows ARM in Parallels on M1 Mac and use Visual Studio perfectly. Microsoft says "it might not work" yet it works flawlessly. YMMV though.

But isn’t a huge part of Windows the ecosystem of applications? That largely doesn’t exist on ARM though correct? Or does Windows have an emulation solution built in for that.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#288
post #211

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

> Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? I care way more that my Dell laptop is trivial to disassemble than that making it that way (cheaply) involves plastic, panel gaps and creaking joints.

Surely it’s possible to make laptops that can be disassembled easily and don’t creak. Apple used to do it. Dell used to do it. Why not now?

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because every other computer manufacturer realized they can save on the BOM cost by shoving the whole computer under plastic gingerbread. That weight distribution? It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly. Flickering redraws? We don't make the OS, we just sell Microsoft's. Occasionally you do see PC OEMs that try for taste in the Windows ecosystem. Sony did that with their VAIO laptops, with the somew…

> It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly. No such thing as a "correct" design: it's all about market positioning and design trade-offs. I'm typing this on a sub-$300 laptop, it's made of plastic, it bends and flexes, but it is very light, and has a 1980x1024 display, a 9-hour battery, and again - it bears repeating - cost less than $300 brand new. These factors may not be important to you, but they…

May I ask what computer it is?
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