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Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#281
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you imagine the outcome would have been different in a hypothetical world with an entirely privatized justice system?

I was in this situation, I lost roughly 2k£. I tried to go to court for 8k£ in small claims which is what the law allowed for as a compensation for the crime. This guy got arrested by the police, he was released and then run away to Dubai where he's from. He came back after a month and opened a company under a false name and started doing the same scam. I knew his address, I reported everything to the police and the…

In this hypothetical world you’d be paying way more in protection money than you are currently paying in taxes to the local mafia gang who would have long murdered all the other private protection agencies.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#283
post #5

I haven't found free, open-source solutions, but HelloSign[0] is a decent solution if you only need to sign documents a few times per year. Their free tier supports three documents per month. They make it look like they only have paid plans, but you can sign up without a credit card for a free tier. [0] https://www.hellosign.com/

I second this. Hellosign has been my goto for signing PDF's for years and years - and I use the free plan. I even use it when I am the only signer.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#284
Estonia has had electronic signatures since 2002. Cryptographically signed PDFs (or any files), backed by the government, free to use, and widely used by common citizens. All you need is residency (an ID card) and a cheap USB reader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature_in_Estonia

(yes, "free to use" means tax-funded, no need to point this out)

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#285
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an audit log of access (both email and IP address) is extremely useful if someone asks "did this person actually perform the e-signature". You can then perform motions regarding whether their email has compromised and, if needed, go to their ISP for IP assignment records to see if their account (mobile or home internet) was assigned to that IP. Docusign being the source of authority for the validity of the ori…

I've always felt that this is the kind of service that a government should offer. It seems a little silly to have to pay a private entity for this kind of service and also a bit unreasonable that a private entity like Docusign is so enmeshed with the legal system.

At its core it seems like identity services are something that the government should be the source of truth for. They're already being used for that in one way or another whether it's checking a driver's license or SSN, but those are misused in terrible terrible ways by private companies. I should not be in a position of having to treat what was originally a mundane identification number as some extremely privileged permanent and unchanging password. It would not be technically onerous for the federal government to establish a secure federal identification standard. Giving every US citizen and residents an identification card much like what's already widespread within the DoD for CAC cards (Yes I'm aware the last "C" stands for card). Ditch SSN cards, driver's licenses, and other generic state ID cards and unify with one purpose built identity system instead of a hodge-podge of separate ones between the states and federal government. Ban the use of SSNs for anything after an effective date and require proof that some contract predates this deadline to have anything even tangentially related to SSN admitted in court.

I just wish someone would drag both political parties kicking and screaming into the modern age. Give Republicans their voter ID requirements they claim to want so much and give Democrats mandatory widespread adoption for every citizen homeless or otherwise. Make it mandatory to even pay income tax.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always go back to, who’s going to invest in actually building the new blockchain solution and for what reason? blockchain is really hot with VCs these days, so that’s who. why? the rewards for a document signing product are large — as evidenced by new traditional companies entering the space (HelloSign). basing a new competitor in this space off of blockchain offers differentiation. despite being less mature or f…

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. That there is money to be made on industry solutions is not in dispute. The point in dispute is that decentralized blockchain based solution makes any sense. Other than to attract VCs who don’t know any better to give you capital, blockchain offers no competitive advantage to an upstart or really a competitive threat to the incumbents. Further I see no desirable “differe…

> Further I see no desirable “differentiation” for a customer to be interested. It doesn’t in fact even solve a customer problem.

document signing is just another form of attestation (“i agree to the terms outlined in this document, effective on ”. blockchains are really good at providing tools for attestation. the specific customer advantage? it’s extremely difficult for your counterparty to claim that he didn’t sign your term sheet if he changes his mind. you just point to some record on the blockchain and say “this has your digital signature on it. it says you agreed to those terms, and it was published at ”.

obviously, DocuSign solves this problem of attestation, by custodianing the documents and putting meaningful reputation on the line in order to remain trustworthy. OTOH, it’s not unheard of to see for-profit companies cash out their reputation (e.g. big brands which sell the brand/logo to cheap manufacturers once the company stops innovating). attestations on a large blockchain (like Bitcoin or Ethereum) augment that reputational cost with a financial cost: even if Docusign decided to cash out their reputation, it would cost billions of dollars to reverse the attestation: a significant barrier.

so it depends on how much you — or the parties you deal with (ex: courts) — trust Docusign. it’s not inconceivable to me that at least a handful of customers might say “i don’t completely trust that any document middleman will not lie about my counterparty’s attestation down the road. but i do trust that blockchain B is secure enough to prevent reversals, so this blockchain-based document signing service might be a better product for me.”

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#287
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an employee, and didn't exactly get fired -- but I chose a cloud vendor for a client that seemed like the best choice at the time, with what I knew. The client was over-the-moon happy that we had found something to satisfy his needs. After switching, his costs went down dramatically, and his downtime went to zero (from rather high, which is why he brought me in). He was happy to sign a contract with the vendo…

Wow, that guy dodged a bullet by not going with aws free credits. After a year he would have ended up being locked in aws and paying tons more.

He did go with the AWS free credits. And then spent a long time getting angry with me and trying not to pay me, because I had supposedly cost him so much, and he wanted to dump the other server company. Sigh.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#288
post #233
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an employee, and didn't exactly get fired -- but I chose a cloud vendor for a client that seemed like the best choice at the time, with what I knew. The client was over-the-moon happy that we had found something to satisfy his needs. After switching, his costs went down dramatically, and his downtime went to zero (from rather high, which is why he brought me in). He was happy to sign a contract with the vendo…

> switch to only doing training Tell us more about this transition? Sounds interesting!

I've only been doing Python training for a few years now. I've made more money, had more flexibility, and been happier than at any previous time in my consulting career (which started in 1995).

Here are two interviews I've given on the subject:

- https://devjourney.info/Guests/83-ReuvenLerner.html - https://doubleyourfreelancing.com/business-freelancing-episo...

I'm always happy to talk about training. I love it, and recommend that everyone in the consulting world look into it more.

I also have a training newsletter, at https://TrainerWeekly.com/.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#289
post #97
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there we go - why DocuSign is a 50b business. Sounds like OP doesn’t understand the complexity.

Can you replicate DocuSign if you were given 50B USD ? Well, then you know if it's overvaluated or not :o)

I could replicate Dropbox with rsync with far less than that (h/t to BrandonM).

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#290

Most of the documents people e-sign are related to business deals (contracts, NDAs, etc) or HR (offer letters) which are such high dollar value transactions that the cost of e-signing is negligible. Your use case unfortunately is just not worth it to them in comparison.

Precisely. I first used Docusign when signing an offer for a condo. The subscription fee is handled by the RE agency. The commissions on a single sale pay for a 1-user license probably 1000 times over.

One may as well ask "Why does Adobe charge $30/mo for Photoshop?"

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