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Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

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Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#281

Post by RobMurray »

ddevault wrote: post #184
mwcampbell wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever used a conventional GUI screen reader? Something like NVDA for Windows, VoiceOver for Mac or iOS, Talkback for Android, or Orca for GNOME? Reading a web page or an HTML email with one of those might give you a different perspective on what's possible, and specifically, how much better the experience of reading a hypertext document with a screen reader can be, compared to something like BRLTTY.

I have used Orca, and I can't stand it. The main advantage is a global place to route text for speech synthesis, but I simply hate using screenreaders to use applications which are not designed with accessibility in mind. There are few better solutions for browsing the web, though. I've been meaning to try lynx with brltty.

If Orca is the only GUI screen reader you have tried, I can understand you being put off. Try NVDA on Windows with Firefox and you'll never look back. NVDA is open source btw.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#282

Post by RobMurray »

O_H_E wrote: post #100
RobMurray wrote: post #81

I have been blind since birth. I recommend downloading NVDA, a free screen reader for windows, and getting used to using it for basic computer use. Getting used to hearing the speech as fast as possible is key to being able to use it efficiently. You said you have hearing loss. Is it bad enough to make speech output useless? If so you would need to learn braille. I would never try front end design as I have no idea w…

This is a bit off-topic, but may I ask: how did you get introduced to programming? Feel free to not answer :D

Basic on a C64 in the 80s. I had just enough sight to read the screen if I set it to all caps and adjusted the contrast on the TV.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#284

Post by RobMurray »

warent wrote: post #187
mwcampbell wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is Python not problematic when using a screen reader, but there are blind programmers who gladly choose Python over other languages. The NVDA screen reader, mentioned in the parent comment, is developed primarily by blind programmers, in Python. The Orca screen reader for GNOME was written by a blind friend of mine, in Python. I have another blind friend who wrote and sold several accessible apps for Windows…

I've come to understand that this is actually a very powerful reason to actually use tabs instead of spaces for indentation. I used to have the irrational preference of using spaces, but once I learned that screen readers work better with tabs, it was a no-brainer from then on.

I don't mind weather it is tabs or spaces, as long as they are not mixed.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#285

Post by bad_user »

1337shadow wrote: post #272
bad_user wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why Dvorak is a thing. I and others like me can touch type with Qwerty just fine. I can comfortably do 70-90 wpm, which is above my speed of thought. I don't suffer from RSI either and I've been touch typing for 20 years. Also the Qwerty layout is more international. In non-English languages the Dvorak assumptions break down, the layout being optimized for English. And good luck finding Dvorak vers…

I speak 3 languages on Dvorak-alt-intl layout which I have optimized for coding: https://blog.yourlabs.org/posts/2017-12-22-dvorak-intl-code-... Dvorak fixed my RSI problems, it is not possible that Qwerty have the same physical impact than Dvorak because physically a Qwerty typer has to "walk" a lot more distance with their fingers to type the same thing than a Dvorak typer that has all voyels on the home row. You c…

> "I can still touch type with Qwerty, but my hands hurt after 5 minutes."

That's not a good metric. In your case, you might be right, but for the general public it's like when picking up any new exercise or sport, like running or biking or anything really, when untrained you end up for the first few days with sore ligaments, joints and muscles. You get used to it.

My hands never hurt, even though I love writing long texts, long emails, long code comments, etc. I can also do 120 wpm but I don't feel the need to do it because it's stressful, not necessarily on the hands, but on my thought process. Speed isn't an issue.

If Dvorak solved your RSI, that's awesome, I can understand why you switched, however I don't think this is a causality issue, meaning that I don't think it was Qwerty that caused RSI in the first place. If Dvorak is a good strategy for you to manage the pain, then great, but it's pain management, not a cure.

I also used to configure my machines a lot, going into a yak shaving rabbit hole every time it wasn't functioning properly. I was on Linux back then, but I gave it up and nowadays I'm much happier. The only yak shaving sink I still have is Emacs and I'll get rid of it as soon as I find something better.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#286

Post by Piskvorrr »

WalterBright wrote: post #250
egd wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a previous gig, we had a lot of systems named after animals, and I'd joked about wiring our alerting system up to emit the animal sound for the system that was paging, but I think I'm actually going to do that at my next gig. Outside the land of software, engineers debug systems using sound all the time - I think we're underutilizing our senses and our pattern recognition.

I always wonder at the madness of elevator design. Most of them "ping" as they pass a floor for accessibility. But that means the blind rider must first know the floor he is on, then count the pings to the right floor. It should simply announce each floor as it passes. I know from experience that you can make quite comprehensible voice sounds by connecting a 5V I/O pin to a speaker, so there is no excuse. (All you do…

The "ping for accessibility" is a holdover from ancient times (think 1910s), when there was an actual bell that was rung by the elevator's passage (one ding up, two dings down, IIRC). Current technology has (and uses) far better capabilities, either by (common) samples or by (uncommon) speech synthesis: "ding" "Floor 6." "Doors opening..."

Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#287

Post by Piskvorrr »

WalterBright wrote: post #280
avip wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any modestly "modern" elevator would have Braille indicators. And many also announce floors same way public transit does.

I've never been in an elevator that announced the floors with anything better than a ping. This is despite elevators being controlled by single board computers since around 1980. The buttons have had braille on them for a long time.

Interesting. OTOH, while old builds here (electromechanical, no microcontrollers, wasn't excessively chatty. (Central Europe mostly, but the same experience everywhere I went: "ground floor, main entrance, access to train station; mind the door; door is opening")

Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#288

Post by parham90 »

Hi there! A colleague of mine referred me to your post. I'd love to have a call and help with advice and coaching to reduce your anxiety of going blind. Since I published the post @ssivark mentioned, I got a lot of emails from developers who were afraid of going blind or who were actually like yourself and were going blind, so trust me when I say that you are not alone and people like you have pulled through. Since you value showing up and being independent, I'm certain you will pull through, too.

Please reach out to me on my website (https://www.parhamdoustdar.com/). I'd love to help.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a software engineer going blind, how should I prepare?

#289

Post by hsrada »

malikolivier wrote: post #268
roganartu wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t speak to physical blindness, but I have aphantasia[0] which basically means I cannot voluntarily invoke my minds eye. Up until I found out about it last year, I thought that “visualizing” things was a metaphor for thinking, as I didn’t realize people could actually see things without looking at them. There are varying degrees of aphantasia. For context, I am completely unable to “see” anything in my mind. I d…

Aphantasia is a condition I have never heard about. Your experience and the description on Wikipedia lets me think I was born like this as well. I had many arguments with my wife about how I did not have visual dreams and did not see anything when I close my eyes. When she says she sees stuff when she closes her eyes, I always assumed it was some sort of metaphor and it was usual for human beings not to see anything…

Not OP but this felt like a simple test - https://twitter.com/backus/status/1091203973246111744

There's the Vividness of Visual Imagery Quiz but that's self-administered and is a questionnaire.

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