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Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

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Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#271
post #189
post #64

There used to be a YC startup dedicated to this, which unfortunately no longer exists. I don't know the backstory on that, but I do remember that there was quite a large Launch HN thread: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14911467 - Aug 2017 (506 comments) I link it here in case there might still be useful information or tips in those…

Thanks @dang. 70 Million Jobs CEO Richard Bronson wrote a moving update for HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31598978

Ah I'd forgotten. Thanks! I've added it above.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#272
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be, but there are some big advantages: 1. You get to test the flaws in an environment where nobody will raise an eyebrow. If you go straight for the production system, it is likely your early attempts will visibly show up in the logs. 2. You get paid to carry out malicious deeds. That's a double win. It would be kind of silly not to.

I think it would be silly to do so. You're pulling down $20k+ contracts for a week's work. It's a pretty good gig and completely legal.

Why do you think it would be silly to take the job?

The second two sentences read like excellent reasons why you should take the job (even if they are just a repeat what I already said in different words).

I must have missed something.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#273
post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

The funny part about your third paragraph, is that if someone took you up on this "bad employee database," it would look a lot like China's Social Credit System. Which is probably not desirable. (And maybe the other funny part would be just how many of the public employees who would otherwise be in charge of administering this database, would end up being in it!) Nonetheless I agree with the point you seem to be maki…

Even funnier is that there is no Social Credit System in China, not the way you think there is. There is no record of small offences by the billion and a half Chinese, we're barely even able to maintain proper records in general, let alone useless fluff like a score for each citizen.

I invite you to read this: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-sys...

I quote: "Contrary to common belief, the cities mainly target companies, not individuals. Nonetheless, legal representatives of a violating company are also included in the blacklists to prevent reoffending elsewhere or under a different company. Nationally, about 75 percent of entities targeted by the system end up on blacklists because of court orders they have ignored—the so-called judgment defaulters. The remaining companies are typically collared for severe marketplace violations—for instance, for food safety infringements, environmental damage, or wage arrears. But much of these cities’ day-to-day use of the SCS is banal thanks to the system’s fragmentation and inflation of results."

The gist of it is that it was a grading system for businesses, to distinguish the bad payers, often bankrupts people restarting business over and over. This is ofc not great because we would need a "start over" mindset like in the US, but stop reading buzzfeed-like news about this thing, it's a bit cringe.

We are oppressed maybe, but not THAT good at it. Most of the censorship in China is self inflicted and networked, from the bottom, think "shhh don't say that you'll be in trouble" or "I prefer not to answer that question, wink wink". No need for complicated expensive systems diverting taxpayer money away from the pockets of our dear leaders, when a simple 2-hour interview of one person at the police station can silence an entire social graph of hundreds of people for months :)

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there proof of this?

Proof definitely needed. Honestly this doesn’t sound like something HN would have any interest in doing, they don’t serve ads or anything like that so why would they care?

They do definitely limit upvoting/downvoting from similar accounts, so this isn't out of the realm of possibility. They care to avoid false votes, voting rings, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#275
One of the people on the other side of the table here. There are programs out there for the "rehabilitation" of those formerly convicted. Some of what I've seen is probably not helpful for you, but part of their work is job placement with companies whom are cooperative. It's hit or miss who is willing to go through the extra work of hiring those with a record, which is silly because it's not that much extra work. Depending on the role, it does add extra hoops which some managers will just shrug and find someone with less baggage.

Consulting is an excellent other option as well. Plenty of work in the security field if you get your name out there. Independent experts on small limited projects. Especially if you're doing things like external pen tests.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#276

Thank you all for your perspective, and suggestions. I was on a bad psychedelic trip, accompanied with some other issues at the time and ending up making threatening statements to a very high level official, but no battery occurred whatsoever. Thank goodness, or I would probably not be writing this message

The challenge here is your choice of specialism. Security is fundamentally a trust-based business and the industry is pretty wary of anyone with a perceived black mark against them. The reasons for this are mainly liability ("if this guy does something wrong and he already has a record, how will we look?") and reputation ("what will our government customers think about us if we hire this person?"). Could/would you co…

The point of security is to remove trust as a requirement.

Poster could say, “you don’t need to trust me, that’s the point of {insert product or service}”.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#277

As far as I'm aware, the state of play in tech is far more welcoming to formerly incarcerated people than this thread would imply. Justice Through Code at Columbia University is designed to place formerly incarcerated and criminal legal system-involved individuals in tech roles, and has had a lot of success placing its alumni at big tech companies [1]. And this is largely for entry-level tech workers. Checkr is a com…

Federal prisons were offering coding courses as early as the 1970s.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#278
I know a fair number of people who have had no problem after (old) drug or DUI or violence convictions, but I usually hear about them in the context of "15 years ago I...". I don't know more current who isn't just a corp to corp contractor. I know people who have pled and haven't been sentenced, or who have had relatively recent convictions, who are working as single member LLCs for clients who know details.

If it's old or minor, I don't think I'd care as a hiring manager. It's annoying in some regulated industries since felony complicates checkbox compliance, but in "normal" industries enh.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#279
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they're suggesting create a false identity, and pose as a foreign national illegally living in the United States. It's a rather ...unconventional suggestion, that clearly was not thought out. There is a high risk someone doing that ends up stateless, i.e., with no documentation or paperwork establishing citizenship in any country. The US may arrest such a person at the border - and then imprison them - and t…

U.S. Customs and Border Protection will happily reply to emails explaining exactly what I said is what in fact happens. You don't have to travel to Arizona or Texas to see it first-hand. Rather than constructing an imaginary straw man detached from reality, please try to reply to the comment and the facts with external links to refute the information. I'm more than happy to provide further counter-factual information…

Neither of you has given much hard information. No dog in the hunt here, but it sounds interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#280
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be silly to do so. You're pulling down $20k+ contracts for a week's work. It's a pretty good gig and completely legal.

Why do you think it would be silly to take the job? The second two sentences read like excellent reasons why you should take the job (even if they are just a repeat what I already said in different words). I must have missed something.

I meant silly to use exploits find while performing a pentest for malicious purposes.

You get well paid and it's legal.

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