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Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#271

Post by jcranmer »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #224
jcranmer wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio... , page 7 Average commute time in NYC MSA is 37.7 minutes, longest of any major MSA in the country. DC MSA is 35.6 minutes. Only ~23% of NYC have commutes longer than hour, and ~18% in DC. (Note: statistics are using 2019 data, so doesn't account for anything COVID related, and people who don't commute are excluded from the statistics.)

Must be nice to own a place in Dumbo or Nassau County. Out here, in the affordable section, it's not as easy. When I lived in the DC suburbs, 32 years ago, I lived in Gaithersburg, MD. I worked in Rockville (1 exit south, on I-270). Six miles, as the crow flies. My daily commute was 45 minutes. I-270 is a charming bit of tarmac. It's a 12-lane parking lot, that stretches from Frederick, to the Beltway. I have no idea…

I grew up in the DC suburbs (VA side). There's definitely a lot of people who have 40-minute commutes or the like... but 20 and 30 minute commutes are not reasonably uncommon. When I had to cross the river on the Woodrow Wilson (in the era they were building the new one, no less, so perma-construction), my commute was regularly about 20-30 minutes long, although morning was routinely shorter than afternoon (295 just crawls trying to get back onto 495).

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#272

Post by Eupraxias »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #258
prepend wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in New York. I left for the train at 545 and got to work between 830 and 9. I don’t think this is the average commute, but millions of people do this every day.

NYC was fun in my 20s, but I could not believe the older people I was working with spent ~3 hours per day commuting to and from Manhattan and NJ/CT/NY. Their entire life, Mon to Fri, was wake up, go to work, maybe spend an hour with kids or watch TV, go to sleep, and repeat. And they did not get paid enough to do it from age 30 to 55 or even 65. The only amount of pay that would be enough would be an amount that allo…

I had a friend who's father did the 4 hours of commuting in/out of NYC every day. Used to visit a few times a year, and he did that every day M-F.

As a Vermonter kid, I had a lot of trouble getting my head around how he stayed sane.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#273

Post by Jenk »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #246
Jenk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also incredibly lonely at times - despite being constantly surrounded by people - which I figure can warp your mind much like too much solitary confinement can. I don't say this from personal experience (un)fortunately, I say this as someone who has a family member that is a confidant of a billionaire from the middle-east (whom I'll refer to as Bob.) The family member is one of their close staff - travels with t…

>Maids, servers, and other staff are stealing things all the time - Bob maintains and reviews an inventory of stolen property with his security detail, with monthly targets... theft of his belongings is an ever present cost to Bob. I can solve this problem for Bob. Live a more modest life and not have 10 homes with a million things in them. Maybe stick to first class flights, or even charter private flights when desi…

I dare say Bob has thought of this. But hey, it's easier to just armchair a complex problem away with a simple solution, than it is to acknowledge that complexity, amirite?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#274

Post by [deleted] »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #228
Jenk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also incredibly lonely at times - despite being constantly surrounded by people - which I figure can warp your mind much like too much solitary confinement can. I don't say this from personal experience (un)fortunately, I say this as someone who has a family member that is a confidant of a billionaire from the middle-east (whom I'll refer to as Bob.) The family member is one of their close staff - travels with t…

The increase of wealth and fame leads to an increase of isolation and decrease of safety and trust. Beyond a certain point, as a “known wealthy person”, you will never know if a romantic partner cares about you or your wealth. Same for your friends. Relatives. Anybody. You will not be able to do things you’ve taken for granted - like go to the pub or to a restaurant or on a hike or ride your bike on the bike path - w…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#275

Post by counttheforks »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #249
msmenardi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd also be nice if companies were forced to pay for time spent commuting

Obfuscating costs and increasing the complexity makes no sense. Variable rate tolling on roads to disincentivize unnecessary travel by individual car makes more sense.

Then the companies will just tell you to suck it up and pay the tax yourself, or they'll find someone else.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#276

Post by lotsofpulp »

Jenk wrote: post #273
lotsofpulp wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maids, servers, and other staff are stealing things all the time - Bob maintains and reviews an inventory of stolen property with his security detail, with monthly targets... theft of his belongings is an ever present cost to Bob. I can solve this problem for Bob. Live a more modest life and not have 10 homes with a million things in them. Maybe stick to first class flights, or even charter private flights when desi…

I dare say Bob has thought of this. But hey, it's easier to just armchair a complex problem away with a simple solution, than it is to acknowledge that complexity, amirite?

How is this a complex problem? Having to secure one’s assets is a problem to even non human species.

The thing that makes it simple is that all the things Bob has are purely unnecessary. So if Bob feels overburdened by the task of securing them, then the simple solution is to jettison them.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#277

Post by [deleted] »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #239
sershe wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commute from a large-ish city to its suburb, my commute is 15-18 minutes. Anecdotes are not data... average commute in the US is like 20-30mins. I suspect most people who can be fully remote (i.e. are not in service industry) can afford to move instead of commuting 3 hours one way.

So actually not a large city at all? Hard to believe there's there's actually a commute from Suburb to Downtown in under 20 minutes during rush hour for any of the 20 largest cities in the US.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#278

Post by gman2093 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #211
thedangler wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. And I did some rough estimations on why my employer wants us in the office. They make $115k a month of employees buying coffee. That is only coffee, and that was a very conservative estimate of only 40% of employees buying only a coffee on an average of $2. This doesn't take into account parking we have to pay for, or lunch, or snacks.

> They make $115k a month of employees buying coffee ... parking we have to pay for, or lunch, or snacks Lol what? Why are they making you pay for these things?

Some places make money selling software, some places make money selling out their employees!

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#279

Post by osigurdson »

sershe wrote: post #226
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees waste 2 of their 16 I suspect that you don't commute to a large city (either via car or mass transit). It's more like 4-6 hours. Crazy.

I commute from a large-ish city to its suburb, my commute is 15-18 minutes. Anecdotes are not data... average commute in the US is like 20-30mins. I suspect most people who can be fully remote (i.e. are not in service industry) can afford to move instead of commuting 3 hours one way.

According to this data, commutes are pretty much no big deal in all states.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/...

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't remote work advertised as a pro environment initiative?

#280

Post by zhengyi13 »

closeparen wrote: post #198
osigurdson wrote: post #122

There is nothing more illogical in modern society than commuting to an office every day. Employees waste 2 of their 16 available waking hours in the non-productive commute while incurring significant financial costs (lease/insurance/fuel/energy) in order to support this patently absurd activity. Employers waste time and energy negotiating leases, re-arranging offices, purchasing AV equipment for meeting rooms, etc.,…

New York has one of the worst commute situations in the country, with an average of 36 minutes each way. The US average is 27 minutes. People commuting two hours a day are extreme outliers. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/realestate/commuting-best...

... Maybe? This might be a case where an average doesn't tell the whole story.

45-minute to hour-long commutes each way have been the norm for me pretty much the entirety of my 20-odd year career in Silicon Valley. For me the outliers were the folk who opted to live 2+hrs away to afford a single family home, and were still commuting in - some did it daily; some did it weekly, and couch surfed during the week.

(The other outlier was the fellow who parked his Airstream in the back of the company lot until they told him he had to move.)

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