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Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#271

Post by bearmode »

ianai wrote: post #246
kotlin2 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WFO isn't necessarily about personal preference. People who want everyone to WFO believe that WFO produces better outcomes for the company. That is different than someone who desires to work from an office or remotely out of personal preference. For instance, I may prefer to WFH because it makes my life more convenient, but I can also accept that WFO produces better outcomes for the company. Personally, I haven't see…

If you want WFH to value-add to your position then it’s on you to make it happen. Where I am, the WFHers have ruined a lot of morale and contributed to around half the team leaving.

And yet, I bet those WFHers are far happier now than they were before.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#272

Post by throw827474737 »

BaseballPhysics wrote: post #180
bodge5000 wrote: post #118

With all due respect, this is mostly my problem with the "work-from-office" (WFO for ease) crowd. Generally, the stance of the WFH crowd is that each individual should get a choice of what makes that individual happy. Very few, if any, of the WFH crowd want mandatated WFH, it would make no sense. But then the WFO crowd often says no, I don't care what makes you happy, because you being in makes me happy. That doesn't…

I'd also add that comments like this: > Now, I am fully aware that there's a low of people for whom the horror of commute doesn't make up for the gains of socializing and others that just abhor having to talk to real-life people. Then there are people who work mainly to get paid and do not care to invest themselves beyond what is necessary. Are remarkably condescending. Folks opting for a better work-life balance, wh…

Yeah, that also struck bad here..

> work mainly to get paid and do not care to invest themselves beyond what is necessary

Dude, I am heavily invested into my work, but that doesn't mean I need to care for your social deficits - it can, but these should be mostly orthogonal things.

Social investment is what I realized I really need to decrease at work, lol I still do it too much even virtually ( what is possible ). Too long I have stuck to bad jobs because of colleagues and bonding.. much better to get this into a more "professional relationship", because you know, while your employer tries to meme the "friendly colleague" he never actually gives a shit.. so turns out better for me to make real friendships outside of work ( yeah, even with colleagues) and use my commute time for other social things - but stop "soft-socializing" with colleagues in office for nothing in the end !)

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#273

Post by kotlin2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #261
kotlin2 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WFO isn't necessarily about personal preference. People who want everyone to WFO believe that WFO produces better outcomes for the company. That is different than someone who desires to work from an office or remotely out of personal preference. For instance, I may prefer to WFH because it makes my life more convenient, but I can also accept that WFO produces better outcomes for the company. Personally, I haven't see…

> Personally, I haven't seen many good arguments that WFH produces superior work outcomes. https://www.apollotechnical.com/working-from-home-productivi... https://resources.owllabs.com/hubfs/SORW/SORW_2021/owl-labs_... > Several studies over the past few months show productivity while working remotely from home is better than working in an office setting. On average, those who work from home spend 10 minutes less a d…

I'm not going to comment on the entire Apollo Technical source, but I think some of their claims are misleading. For instance, they say this:

> A study by Standford of 16,000 workers over 9 months found that working from home increase productivity by 13%.

They link to the study, but it 404s. I believe this is the study [0] and it focuses on a single call-center. It's not a broad survey of 16,000 workers.

[0]: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers...

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#274

Post by matwood »

bodge5000 wrote: post #169
shiftpgdn wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on a team that has a mandatory "in-person" day twice a month. This seems to be the best balance for everyone as it's just infrequent enough to not feel like a grind but frequent enough to keep everyone moving in the same direction.

Given the choice, I'd never take a hybrid role. It means I still need to keep the "infrastructure" needed to get to the office (eg a car, public transport around me is terrible), but it sits unused 90% of the time. I can't get properly comfortable working at home or in the office because I'm constantly in between the two. Its just not for me.

I wouldn't consider 2x/month hybrid. It's close, but IMO is more like typical remote work where the team gets together periodically.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#275

Post by runako »

closewith wrote: post #13
badpun wrote: post #8

> As soon as a company's IT department is practically fully remote, why should they page a German wage for someone who is a face on a screen, when they can pay a fraction for that same face broadcasted from a few hundred kilometers further east or south? German is hardly used in business context here anyway and lower-wage countries within ±3 hours timezones abound. This has already happened and has resulted in unific…

If that is the case, why are dev salaries in, for example, Dublin so much higher than Berlin (€115,000 vs €86,000 if Levels.fyi is to be believed)? Both are EU capitals with excellent, well-educated workforces.

I don't have direct experience, but IIRC it's much more difficult to fire someone in Germany than in Ireland. Having a concept of at-will employment that is closer to the US version would be a good reason to pay more in Ireland than Germany.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#278

Post by eutropia »

When I was younger and didn’t have a family to look after: I really enjoyed working at a small (30 person) startup with some folks I had been to university with, and some really amazing programming mentors I wouldn’t have met in a BigCo.

Working late occasionally, or more often just spending time with colleagues I was also friends with after work; and hacking away in close collaboration with them during working hours, taking long lunches and talking through tech problems. It was a really thrilling and enjoyable part of my life!

But everything (even sweet things) comes to an end. The CEO was a sales guy and eventually tech debt languished under the weight of one-off features, and one of my closer mentors took off to start his own startup. I got married and stopped coming in to the office as frequently, eventually I found a new job. Full time remote (though we offsite 4 times a year together).

I’ve been happy the entire time. Working at that small startup was great in the office. Working at this larger and more mature tech company with an incredible fully remote culture has also been great.

As is the answer for so many tech questions: “it depends”.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#279

Post by mmierz »

kotlin2 wrote: post #237
bodge5000 wrote: post #118

With all due respect, this is mostly my problem with the "work-from-office" (WFO for ease) crowd. Generally, the stance of the WFH crowd is that each individual should get a choice of what makes that individual happy. Very few, if any, of the WFH crowd want mandatated WFH, it would make no sense. But then the WFO crowd often says no, I don't care what makes you happy, because you being in makes me happy. That doesn't…

WFO isn't necessarily about personal preference. People who want everyone to WFO believe that WFO produces better outcomes for the company. That is different than someone who desires to work from an office or remotely out of personal preference. For instance, I may prefer to WFH because it makes my life more convenient, but I can also accept that WFO produces better outcomes for the company. Personally, I haven't see…

At my last work from office gig, I was sitting next to a sales support person who was on the phone all day long on topics that were irrelevant to my work. And the other software people would start shooting each other with f-ing nerf guns later on in the day. It was nearly impossible for me to concentrate.

My personal preferences be damned, I add way more value to the company from my quiet, comfortable home office.

I would be 100% fine with work from office if I got a private room with a door. I'm even OK with sharing it with 1-2 other people. But I have not been able to find anyone who will offer me that, only open office chaos -- bad for me, bad for the company.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#280

Post by throw827474737 »

bearmode wrote: post #262
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also add that comments like this: > Now, I am fully aware that there's a low of people for whom the horror of commute doesn't make up for the gains of socializing and others that just abhor having to talk to real-life people. Then there are people who work mainly to get paid and do not care to invest themselves beyond what is necessary. Are remarkably condescending. Folks opting for a better work-life balance, wh…

I worked out that for me, even accounting for energy bills and such, working from home full time would be equivalent to a 15% pay rise. And on top of that, I'd have 2 hours of extra free time every day. I can't understand the kind of person who wouldn't want that.

Totally.. and if you really miss the socializing in the office because of being young and alone, or fresh in a city (only reason why I could understand that): find a nice coworking space nearby and you can have most of the things the author seems to miss?
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