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Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

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271–280 of 309 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#271

IANAL, but it would be interesting to hear from one. My opinion is that your data is a currency. You spend it in exchange for goods. So, I believe that, yes, you should own the services you have paid for with data.

That's how it's done in Germany since the beginning of the year. Paying a price or providing personal data gives the consumer the same rights now.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the free plan from Zoho and it's been solid. But... I have been using it for a while and it is my understanding that certain features I have (IMAP) are no longer in the free plan.

Just looked at their pricing and it looks quite sane. How good is their calendar and does it sync to iOS and Android?

I use the Zoho app (iOS and Android) for mail and calendar, so yeah, it syncs that way. I haven't tried setting up another mobile app.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#273
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having the government having information about everyone’s email address… What could possibly go wrong?

Probably nothing? They (or we I guess) have phone numbers and addresses as well.

You have a lot more faith in a government that has proven plenty of times that they can’t be trusted with information than you probably should.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of these points are true. Other manufacturers like Toyota are getting into the "features as a service" game with things like keyless entry. On the surveillance point, I worked for an auto software company that partnered with a big auto manufacturer on a feature. We were granted access to an API that could geolocate any vehicle made by this company in real-time given its VIN. I volunteered my car's VIN to test…

That is amazing since VIN's are often visible from the outside. This is just so open to abuse, especially if it was a casual to lookup as you make it seem (no verification that you were the owner and for just a lark). We as engineers need to establish a code of ethics. Seriously, every profession needs to have a "do no harm" clause because clearly companies have zero ethics.

To be clear, we signed a contract that explicitly prevented this API to be used for anything other than our particular commercial use case and access to production creds to this service was heavily restricted. I never once saw the service being abused, but you're absolutely right. The question I kept asking myself was: who is out there using this service against the vendor's TOS for whatever reason? This industry was largely built and shaped by people that didn't care at all about the rules, and the longer I work in this field, the more cynical I become about the effectiveness of just adding more rules. It feels like a pinky promise at this point.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the free plan from Zoho and it's been solid. But... I have been using it for a while and it is my understanding that certain features I have (IMAP) are no longer in the free plan.

Just looked at their pricing and it looks quite sane. How good is their calendar and does it sync to iOS and Android?

Their Calendar is exactly like any other caldav icalendar, works fine on iOS and any other platform using the calendar standard protocol.

Been using Zoho for many years, switched from my free grandfathered Google Apps account to Zoho around 2014.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#276
post #51

> lost access to paid services that I had set up with social login I signed up to Quora with my Facebook account, back in the day. Deleted Facebook in 2013 and lost access to my Quora account, with no possible way to recover it. I haven't used a social login since. In my case, it was fairly harmless, but it made me realise how dangerous social login is. Every time there's a signup, I look for "signup with email". It'…

There really needs to be a zero cost custom-domain email hosting solution. I'd love to have webmail on my own domain, hosted by someone else, and with ads on the side. Those ads should generate ~$20 per user per year (after all, they can be targeted based on emails I'm sending and receiving, and I'll be looking at them many minutes every day - the perfect combination for high revenue ads). With $20/user/year, there s…

The largest email providers already show ads to the free tier. They don't earn that much per user and it's just not worth supporting custom domains at that scale.

If they cant make it work, why would anyone else have more success by offering even more features for free?

And if you're already buying a domain name then why not just pay for the email account too?

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social logins only carry your information and a token, and you can enter to your profile and add a password too (99% of the time). So, you can use social login (OpenID Connect in reailty), as an automated form filler and add your password, so your account will be effectively won't depend on that provider anymore. I use a lot of services like that.

How do people remember which social login they used for any given site? There are usually multiple and they overlap between sites and none work with every site.

I make it easy by Never using social login because I don't want the chance of being locked out and password managers are easy enough.

So they are always in my password manager, and that part of life is good.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#279
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate the training/socializing effects of being raised with advertising, and the steps toward closing that gap already underway. You can buy discounted TVs (and in some places they are the only TVs you can buy), which clearly have advertisements on them that others do not. When more people wake up my bet is they will be accustomed to advertising, they will just want better advertising. And if one…

I replied in the other thread. The flaw in your argument is that the only way for "better advertisement" is through personal data selling. Brave's model has shown that you can have a ad distribution system that gives more power to the users , the ads are still relevant, fraud is much more easily detected and it can still reward the users for their attention. With zero knowledge proofs, you can even have a system wher…

Fully agreed with the last paragraph - consider the morality of direct exploitation of user data, and the risks that it is used in ways not originally intended. Maybe read some history too such as McCarthyism, Stalinism and many related instances throughout history. This data exploitation that has swept through the world has the potential to be a terrible nightmare in the making.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of these points are true. Other manufacturers like Toyota are getting into the "features as a service" game with things like keyless entry. On the surveillance point, I worked for an auto software company that partnered with a big auto manufacturer on a feature. We were granted access to an API that could geolocate any vehicle made by this company in real-time given its VIN. I volunteered my car's VIN to test…

This is true, for example: https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ You do have the ability to opt-out, but it's not usually a simple process.

The supposed ability to opt out. How do you know Toyota truly removes that capability?
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