Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#271

Post by esmi » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #208

neoteo wrote: post #43

I think Apple's current approach, where all the smarts (Machine Learning, Differential Privacy, Secure Enclave, etc.) reside on your device, not in the cloud, is the most promising. As imagined in so much sci-fi (eg. the Hosaka in Neuromancer) you build a relationship with your device which gets to know you, your habits and, most importantly in regard to search, what you mean when you search for something and what re…

I remember hearing something about Differential Privacy from a WWDC keynote a few years back however I haven't heard much lately. Can you say how and where Apple is currently using Differential Privacy/

https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Over...

Apple uses local differential privacy to help protect the privacy of user activity in a given time period, while still gaining insight that improves the intelligence and usability of such features as: • QuickType suggestions • Emoji suggestions • Lookup Hints • Safari Energy Draining Domains • Safari Autoplay Intent Detection (macOS High Sierra) • Safari Crashing Domains (iOS 11) • Health Type Usage (iOS 10.2)

Found via Google...

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#272

Post by ninju » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

kickscondor wrote: post #233

iblaine wrote: post #228

Yes, it was called Yahoo and it did a good job of cataloging the internet when hundreds of sites were added per week: https://web.archive.org/web/19961227005023/http://www2.yahoo... I'm old enough to remember sorting sites by new to see what new URLs were being created, and getting to that bottom of that list within a few minutes. Google and search was a natural response to solving that problem as the number of sites…

Directories are still useful - Archive of Our Own ( https://archiveofourown.org/ ) is a large example for fan fiction, Wikipedia has a full directory ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Main_topic_classifica... ), Reddit wikis perform this function, Awesome directories ( https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome ) or personal directories like mine at href.cool. The Web is too big for a single large directory - but…

How about this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#273

Post by z3t4 » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

An idea I've had for a long time is a .well-known/search standard (REST) endpoint. Where your browser, or a search aggregator combines results from many sites like stack overflow, MDN, news sites, i duvidual blogs, etc. That way search engines doesnt have to create a index. It would be up to the sites to create the search result. This means searching would be parallel and distributed.

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#274

Post by CapitalistCartr » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

I've said this before: I dearly miss Alta Vista. It indexed, but the user had to provide the ranking, which required actually thinking about what was wanted. I would construct searches of the pattern (word OR word) And (word NEAR word) with great success. Naturally Google, requiring far less thinking to use, won.

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#275

Post by Advaith » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

I think this is the long game with respect to blockchains and establishing trust in general.

You will be able to trust data and sources instantly. There will be no intermediaries and trust will be bootstrapped into each system.

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#276

Post by dpacmittal » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

Why don't we get rid of tracking instead of getting rid of search engines. Why can't I just have my ad settings set by myself. I should be able to say, I'm interested in tech, fashion, watches, online backup solutions etc. Show me only these ads. It would get rid of all kinds of tracking.

Can anyone tell me why such an approach wouldn't work?

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#277

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

davemp wrote: post #128

ovi256 wrote: post #110

Everyone has missed the most important aspect of search engines, from the point of view of their core function of information retrieval: they're the internet equivalent of a library index. Either you find a way to make information findable in a library without an index (how?!?) or you find a novel way to make a neutral search engine - one that provides as much value as Google but whose costs are paid in a different w…

The problem is that current search engines are indexing what is essentially a stack of random books thrown together by anonymous library goers. Before being able to guide readers to books, librarians have to the following non-trivial tasks over the entire collection: - identify the book's theme - measure the quality of the information - determine authenticity / malicious content - remember the position of the book in…

Also, there's an massive economic market on top on what is on the closest shelves. Libraries are less sensitive to these forces.

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#278

Post by Retra » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

adrianmonk wrote: post #257

I think it would be helpful to remember to distinguish two separate search engine concepts here: indexing and ranking. Indexing isn't the source of problems. You can index in an objective manner. A new architecture for the web doesn't need to eliminate indexing. Ranking is where it gets controversial. When you rank, you pick winners and losers. Hopefully based on some useful metric, but the devil is in the details on…

Couldn't you just randomize result ordering?

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#279

Post by ninju » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

I find myself not need to do a 'generic' Internet search that much anymore

For long-term facts and knowledge lookup: Wikipedia pages (with proper annotation)

For real-time World happens: A mix of direct news websites

For random 'social' news: The results from the search engines nowadays are so filled with (labeled) promoted results and (un-labeled) SEO results that I have become cynical and jaded to the value of the results

Re: Ask HN: Can we create a new internet where search engines are irrelevant?

#280

Post by nexuist » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

dpacmittal wrote: post #276

Why don't we get rid of tracking instead of getting rid of search engines. Why can't I just have my ad settings set by myself. I should be able to say, I'm interested in tech, fashion, watches, online backup solutions etc. Show me only these ads. It would get rid of all kinds of tracking. Can anyone tell me why such an approach wouldn't work?

I could put "aviation" as one of my interests but I'm nowhere close to being able to afford a plane or any aviation related accessories unless they're R/C models (even then that's pushing it).

Just because I see ads I'm interested doesn't mean I'll want to buy what they're selling. Whereas if a system that tracked me can deduce that I'm a private pilot, it can make an educated guess towards my income and adjust the type of items it shows me correspondingly. I doubt many people would be willing to provide this information (demographics, location, income) that advertisers care about most.