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Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

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Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#271
post #199

I worked in landscaping and then as a custodian making $7/hr before I started learning to code. Working as a programmer has transformed my life. I've got a lot of autonomy in my days, I enjoy solving technical problems, I get to work from home and see my 2yr old grow up. Yeah it sucks when your manager puts heavy deadlines on your team, or having to do things you don't necessarily agree with, or navigating corporate…

> I think it's easy for programmers to hate life sometimes.

This is almost entirely due to a severe lack of perspective.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#272
post #182

I enjoy programming but 'working as a programmer' is infuriating. There are so many interesting product ideas yet 'me-too' CRUD app recreations of previously successful incumbents products are highly desired. This is particularly true in the startup ecosystems where kids talk about 'interesting' problems and finding 'purpose' and yet are blindly following the mantras and motivational speeches of trite capitalists. I…

I enjoy X, but 'working doing X' is infuriating. I would bet that most people feel this way. Maybe we should consider alternatives to wage labor that better meet the needs of people instead of the needs of the capitalists...

'Needs of the capitalists'... You mean like plumbers, grandmothers, schoolteachers, homeowners, and software developers?

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In retail, you don't get free food / liquid. Water is free, most likely. I've never had free food programming, beyond nutra-grain bars, once. > Customers are allowed to scream at you and you have to figure out how to make them happy. Toxic clients exist in the programming world, too. And as a low-level peon, you have a lot more leeway in telling an abusive customer to get out than you do a multimillion dollar clien…

Try crawling around in asbestos filled attics or rat infested crawl spaces for 12 bucks an hour. Programming is much easier than so many professions I've had in the past it's absolutely unbelievable.

Oh, man. At 16-17, I used to do that installing HVAC systems. At 21-22, I worked in a factory to support a family. Then I spent the next 3.5 years selling cars. Finally said, "Fuck this", and decided to start programming as work instead of just play.

Even the worst days of the last 9 years have never been as hard as the best days before it.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#274
My cynical elevator pitch is, we're internet construction workers on a good day and Internet janitors on a bad one. That said, I chose this life at 17 and haven't looked back. I'd be miserable as a lawyer or some other professional. Programmers are treated like professionals, but we get a lot more leeway when it comes to how we live our lives.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm happy, but working at a startup is hard and that can sometimes be depressing.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#275
Any time I catch myself complaining about my career I do my best to jolt myself out of it. That's not to say I have nothing to complain about or that aspects of my career and my job can't be improved, but my god, is there really any other profession in the world that is as lucrative, open, and challenging as programming? There are no bullshit certifications to go through, the best tools and resources are free and open, and the more technology advances the more important it becomes. In no other field can someone start a company with basically zero capital and have a realistic shot at becoming profitable. I am absolutely addicted to programming and the only real downside is that there aren't enough hours in the day to do it.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#276

Though I've been writing software for 15 years, and have worked in the technology industry exclusively throughout my life, I have spent only one year of my professional career as a developer. My job was always a managerial/project management kind of situation - I have equal competency in technology and media/content, so I could always carve out a niche. Then, one day, I decided to abandon my cushy job at Amazon to be…

I think you're problem was going for a start up and not going for Enterprise. Majority of start ups have no idea what they're doing.

There is still something to be learned from startups. I worked enterprise for most of my career and it was always the same story. Ambitious projects, large teams, lots of red tape + politics, inferior technologies; and by and large 'UX' that was largely an afterthought.

I'm still incredibly thankful for the experience, but the lesson was not in actually learning how to do things right. Instead it instilled in me a deep yearning and desire to overcome organizational dysfunction, mediocrity and to overcome technical ineptitude.

Startups is a different animal. You ship things fast, and for the most part, you work with teams that care deeply about all aspects of the product, working with the best tools for the job. Sure, theres cargo cult tendencies - the beginning of this paragraph is evidence. The downside of many startups is that you move so fast that many times you never get to perfect anything, and the constant pivoting in unsuccessful startups tend to wear you down over time.

All in all, I learned much more about shipping code, adapting to the unknown and building products from startups than I did in enterprise.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#277
post #143
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh... I have to ask: what, exactly, were you expecting? Exhilarating highs and a path to millions? It's a job. Most people don't have jobs that'll make them "rich". Be glad you aren't living paycheck to paycheck, or worse, are unemployed because the job you had was optimized away with computers. To be blunt, there's a sense of entitlement evident, here, that I have trouble grokking. You get to spend all day in a com…

This is a horrible comment. There is 100x more to a career than living a comfortable existence. Personally, I want to feel purposeful at work and that I am contributing to a better world. I also absolutely require regular challenges or I end up severely depressed. Also, I have undertaken extensive education partially as a way of raising my standard of living and having a more enjoyable life outside of work. THERE ARE…

> I hope I am wrong and I can make this career work for me, but I am already looking at applying to medical school in a year if can't find a challenging and decently rewarding job in bioinfo. Sucks, because I had originally intended on being a doctor when I was in undergrad but went in another direction because I wasn't 100% sure about it at the time. Unfortunately, I am 100% sure I do not enjoy being a desk jockey.

Do it. I'm a programmer in my first year of med school. Love every single day. Beats sitting in a chair from 9-5 pounding in to a computer. FWIW I still do a ton of programming on my own.

Also, the field needs more doctor-programmers. You'll find boundless areas to apply your CS skills. Plus, if you don't try, I think you'll always wonder: what if?

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy X, but 'working doing X' is infuriating. I would bet that most people feel this way. Maybe we should consider alternatives to wage labor that better meet the needs of people instead of the needs of the capitalists...

'Needs of the capitalists'... You mean like plumbers, grandmothers, schoolteachers, homeowners, and software developers?

What? Have you ever participated in a criticism of capitalism before? Capitalists are by definition people who own and profit from private property (which includes things like small businesses, large businesses, land that is rented out, etc, and does not include things such as your personal home, your car, your laptop). All the people you listed are likely not capitalists in any sense, other than your simplistic analysis that anybody who lives in a capitalist society is a capitalist.

Those people that you all mentioned are the working class. They are the people who are obligated to trade their time in labor for wages which are used (usually 100%) to pay for their own needs such as food, housing, and savings for retirement, which will also be spend of food and housing, just later in life.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#279
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest looking in the mirror ;) Let's be honest. Freelancers are not there to find "interesting clients". They are a temporary resource that enables a client to get a job done they under-resourced. You have a choice as a freelancer 1) Become money focused. Earn as much as you can for as long as you can. 2) Become idea focused. Earn as much as you can until you have enough to bootstrap the idea. Rinse and rep…

Dumb question .. how does one go about getting started as a freelancer? Are there agencies or some other mechanism to get you started? Specifically, interested in how to get started in North America.

It's actually a larger question than you perhaps realize. There are different kinds of freelancing. The spectrum ranges from something that looks like "remote" work to something more akin to agency-like project work.

That former is much easier. The latter pays better but requires a whole bunch of other skills, and takes much more time. The two aren't mutually exclusive however, and that is what I've done as part of my strategy.

There is a monthly find a freelancer thread on here where you might be able to find a gig. Work on building your portfolio/reputation. I'd suggest small projects at reduced rates.

Next, I'd visit a lawyer and get a template contract worked out. Rather than have him write one from scratch, find one that includes a lot of the things you want and have him tweak it. It will be cheaper that way. Most important (IMO) are indemnification, terms of payment, and arbitration.

Get used to promoting yourself. Have your short and long "elevator pitch" together. Put together a landing page and get some business cards. Talk.To.Everyone! You never know where and when your next client will come from.

One of the issues you will run into is the feast or famine issue. You never know when you will get your next client, you have to always be on the lookout and courting -- overloading the queue because a percentage will drop out. If you don't find the next soon enough, then famine. If, as it happens often, several prospects say yes, then you feast. By feast I mean work a lot of hours and save up so you can weather the next famine.

What are your skills? Do you have a portfolio? How about an up-to-date linked-in profile?

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#280

Been coding professionally 37 years. Started as a self taught video game developer back in the Apple II, Commodore era. I loved it at first. University had me working at a 3D graphics research lab with Mandelbrot himself, later on I was an OS developer for the 3DO and the first PlayStation. I worked on tons of high profile video games, and later transitioned to VFX for film, and worked on a ton of popular blockbuster…

> If I could do it all over again, I'd have thrown that temper tantrum at 17 and gone to animation school rather than a normal university.

Is animation that different? It's also "create on demand on schedule".

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