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Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#261
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't ever work in the public sector then. Your salary is public record, open to anyone who is curious enough to look.

The information available via the public record is not as detailed (typically annual salary)and not definitively tied to any person. The Work Number is tied to your SSN and is much more detailed than the public record (each paycheck and a breakdown of different compensation).

In the US, most municipalities will publish each employee's compensation every year. You can literally look them up by name.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#262
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utilities that trend towards natural monopolies due to high barriers to entry like water and electricity infrastructure are often run by the government or heavily regulated because pricing would be extortionate if the market were allowed to set prices.

Yep, basic human rights are priceless, and by capitalist mechanics, their pricing will always converge at "how much can we get away with in the current economy?" Government oversight is the only way we currently have to manage this somewhat. As an example in support of this, healthcare is barely price-regulated and hardly run by the government in America, and is thus extortionate.

> As an example in support of this, healthcare is barely price-regulated and hardly run by the government in America, and is thus extortionate.

They are supply-regulated by governments. According to Niskanen Center, the high cost of health care is due to the American Medical Association limiting new accredited medical schools and certificate-of-need laws limiting new hospitals. https://www.niskanencenter.org/faster_fairer/liberating_the_...

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody else remember that time YC funded an international smuggling operation? https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/backpack https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8199286

Anyone else remember when HackerNews had an adventurous libertarian ethos before the school marms infested the place with irrelevant and low vibrational commentary?

>Anyone else remember when HackerNews had an adventurous libertarian ethos before the school marms infested the place with irrelevant and low vibrational commentary?

Boy will you not like the "high vibrational" commentary people would have for that adventurous™ libertarianism©* of yours.

The "medium vibrational" ones merely wish its pursuers behind bars, the more energetic ones are discussing optimal guillotine blade shape profiles.

* * * * * * *

Question to you.

Would a startup that maintains a public database of names, addresses, and approximate locations of people with net worth over $1B be libertariously adventurous enough by your standards?

You know, like Page, but crowdsourced, and with wage workers as the users (not as product). Purely opt-in. Give it a higher-energy vibe name, like, say, 'rage (as in "average" - for the average people).

Anyone who sees Elon Musk could anonymously report his location to 'rage, giving wage workers an option to avoid providing services to him - just like Pave gives employers an option to avoid getting services from undesirable workers.

Are you a pastry seller who'd rather call in sick the day Peter Thiel or his buddy JD Vance are in town again? Get 'rage, and avoid the awkward interaction.

Anyone who gets a wind of someone fitting the wealth profile will have an option to anonymously contribute this data to 'rage's Wealth Accumulator Registry (Rage WAR™).

They may be breaking their NDA's while doing so, but that won't be 'rage's problem, of course. 'rage will not be in the business of policing individual actions and limiting users' personal freedoms.

The user identity will be e2e encrypted, guaranteeing anonymity. It will be impossible to prove that someone has a 'rage account against their will, or find out they have one.

The app, however, will also allow users to confirm that they have a 'rage account if they choose to do so. This way, wage workers who are concerned about their peers could ask them to privately confirm their account status and contribution karma to avoid sharing a workplace with a scab.

Registration will require entering your own personal wealth data into 'rage WAR™.

While tax returns can be faked, someone uploading a copy of their W-2 paystub will practically ensure that one does not fit the target wealth profile for the B-status.

Those could be faked too, of course - and one could see large employers not wanting to collaborate with 'rage for whatever reasons.

That's exactly where startups like Pave come into play to verify the correctness of the data.

'rage and Pave would not only complement each other in the financial data ecosystem, they would form a natural symbiosis, giving wage workers incentives to ask their employers to use Pave. As for Pave, 'rage would merely be one of its clients, consuming W-2 data just like everyone else.

I hope you will find this proposal sufficiently adventurous and relevant; and I would love to hear your thoughts on this matter.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#264

I have never heard of Pave before, but this just sounds like yet another copy of Equifax's "The Work Number" [1]. Basically, HR at many companies gives your salary and employment history data to Equifax, who then sells access to the information to certain parties with supposed need to access it, including potential and current employers and creditors. This report is likely one of the most invasive consumer files out…

These services feel not dissimilar to the Realpagr case that is ongoing now with rent price fixing.

How does this ultimately not end up having a depressing impact on salaries?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#265
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many if not most companies outsource employment verification to The Work Number. When you get a new job, a frozen report will complicate your background check. They don't give out salary info in employment checks though. AFAIK they require your explicit permission except for government agencies who use it to verify your eligibility for benefits. I would be surprised if they are not selling aggregate salary data thoug…

If they want my info, they can ask me. I would rather them not have this info before an offer is made.

That's normally how it goes. At least, I've always had the background check happen after an offer is signed. It's usually a separate company and they just report back whether your job titles/employment dates match your resume

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… and the usage? Most highly-paid people have no idea how much privilege this affords them. You wonder why so many businesses are nice to you? It’s because they’ve already looked you up and know you’ve got a high income and are a millionaire. Write a personal check for your next automobile? Sure thing, you can drive it off the lot a few minutes later. They won’t even bother cashing the check for a week or two. Try do…

No thank you. I value my privacy and my negotiating ability more than I value a 'service' I didn't even ask for.

Nobody asked for it. But it’s part of the world we live in. And we’re all walking around oblivious to the advantages and disadvantages it gives us.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone else remember when HackerNews had an adventurous libertarian ethos before the school marms infested the place with irrelevant and low vibrational commentary?

[flagged]

No, it is simply an idea to live and let live. Sane people escape California or New York where one must be insanely wealthy to live a decent life. In most of the US, you can do your thing and no one will bother you. Most hellishly expensive places would become affordable and fun if they implemented Texas-style zoning.

Now, obnoxious white people in Silicon Valley would be upset that multifamily housing had allowed displeasing minorities in, but man would that make life better for everyone. I lived in East Asia, and it is really nice when cities are not too expensive for regular people to live in. Furthermore, I have no sympathy for rich @holes who complain about losing their expensive view.

Freedom helps all, but especially the poor. The leftists have tricked people in California and NYC into thinking the system fails the poor, when in reality it is their stupid regulations that made these places expensive.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#268
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make an excellent argument here for tight regulation of the industry.

… and the usage? Most highly-paid people have no idea how much privilege this affords them. You wonder why so many businesses are nice to you? It’s because they’ve already looked you up and know you’ve got a high income and are a millionaire. Write a personal check for your next automobile? Sure thing, you can drive it off the lot a few minutes later. They won’t even bother cashing the check for a week or two. Try do…

That sounds like the most unappealing exchange imaginable. Yes, let me lose both bargaining power with new jobs while simultaneously painting a target on my back, all in exchange for companies being more willing to take my money.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because web3 was a smuggling/laundering operation and those are illegal. basically, all cryptocurrency activity is immediately a suspicious activity.

Reminder that until recently, most cannabis patients relied on smugglers to treat their illnesses.

Reminder that a minority of cases does not justify smuggling for recreational use.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#270
I hear the complaint but it's a bit of a trap to just seek protection.

Yes, the law on point is permissive. That goes with the evolution of law.

But assuming for the moment that we want not just avoid injury to ourselves but to create the world now and to come, what are we called to do?

- What exactly do you, or employees, want in this situation?

- What would Pave do if they wanted to take the high ground? Could that be a business differentiator?

- What law could you write and enforce, to protect what interest, without also damaging other interests that are socially beneficial?

I think the organizational evolution towards having loose laws with tightening enforcement, or tight laws with lax enforcement, give way too much latitude to policing/enforcement and create a corrupting political franchise of affected stakeholders taxed with managing regulators.

My hope would be that internet-scalable transactions have similarly scalable regulatory solutions: dead-simple to detect and assess, finely-tuned to the balance of interests, and so patent as to be indisputable. Then people can get stuff done without dealing with the shadows and forces of ambiguity.

Is something like that possible here? Could Pave be a champion of it?

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