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Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#261

Post by magicalhippo »

mapasj wrote: post #179
starky wrote: post #40

I think you are greatly over-estimating how many people would be willing to pay the cost of a North American made toaster. This would require an absolute ton of capital to do it on anything above a craft scale. The challenges of design, testing, certification (very important for a device that could burn your house down), manufacturing, supply chain, and support that are all specialized careers in themselves. I've got…

I think many Americans want to buy Made-in-the-USA products. Some evidence of that are websites, Reddit groups, etc dedicated to helping people find those products. I think it’s generally understood by these consumers that the price will be higher. And I don’t think it needs to be premium either. There’s a market for knit hats made in the USA. I doubt the quality assurance or price could compete with a factory from A…

A lot of people say they want something until they have to pay for it. Then suddenly they change their minds because invariably it costs more than the cheapest alternative or some other excuse.

Sure, some people will still buy it, but it will be a tiny fraction of those who said they wanted the product.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#262

Post by amne »

janalsncm wrote: post #232
voakbasda wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to tie it up in court for years, while you milk the marketplace. If you lose, pivot. That seems to be a standard playbook.

Usually you’ll be sued for your profits and ordered by the court to stop selling during legal proceedings. And if you don’t, triple damages.

that should be treble ... ba dum tsss

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#263

Post by atoav »

bigfudge wrote: post #226
atoav wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means you the kind of person that buys an experimental toaster and leaves it plugged through the night in your families kitchen? There might be regulation that is too much, also in the field of electrical engineering (and I am a certified EE), but most of it (especially regarding toasters) is pretty useful if you want to sleep sound. This is not about making a toaster. I could make one using a long piece of wire…

But the issue isn’t that they couldn’t clear that bar, necessarily. It’s that they may not have the capital to prove it. We have created an uneven playing field against OLLLOO devices, and against large home grown corps which can indirectly inflate the prices for certification because the incumbency means the cost is not an issue for them.

That depends on your area of operations I guess. If you want to go into aviation, medical devices, trains, cars or anything involving big industrial processes, sure.

If you want to build a toaster not so much. You could just slap a CE sign on and probably get away with selling it via online platforms. That however means you guarantee for the compliance.

You also need a manual in the language of the nation where you want to sell it and a model/serial number and a risk analysis. That is not nothing, but the motivated individual could learn all of that in a few years, if they are somewhat intelligent.

Sure depending on what area you are operating in the catch might be even knowing what all those norms are and the fact that we sometimes have to pay to even read the norms is a friggin crime. But it is probably a good thing that there are some requirements one needs to fulfill to e.g. becoming a commercial airplane manufacturer.

Regulatory capture (big corps demanding stricter regulation to root out their smaller competition) is a thing. But not with the toaster industry.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#265

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

randmeerkat wrote: post #125
nl wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree. The high end of the market is a proven niche and the target high-end buyer has demonstrated a willingness to spend freely on premium grade products. Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters? While in general this is true I think "premium" grade home appliances generally top out around twice the cost of mid-range (I'm thinking vacuums, ovens, refrigerators etc where you compare similar…

> Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters? There’s a proven luxury market for literally anything. Just look at the $399 Wolf Toaster, which coincidentally is made in the U.S. This is the same brand that makes the famous Wolf Ranges. https://wolfgourmet.com/store/countertop-appliances/four-sli...

I mean products like this are basically a grift on rich people and I guess I'm fine with that.

My toaster cost like $30 or something and it still works fine after 10 years. I didn't even research it, just grabbed a random one at a store.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#266

Post by gmac »

ChilledTonic wrote: post #37

Have you looked at other high quality toaster makers abroad? Dualit is in the UK and has been manufacturing high quality, hand built toaster for a long time, but most consumers would balk at the prices they ask for their appliances and I doubt you as a startup would be able to manufacture a toaster any cheaper. https://www.dualit.com/collections/classic-toasters https://www.dualit.com/collections/spares Frankly, I do…

The good thing about a Dualit is that, because (with repairs) they last approximately forever, you can always buy one second-hand.

I paid about 3x what I would normally pay for a toaster for one on eBay. I expect it to last much more than 3x as long (a decent standard toaster usually lasts us around 3 years before something breaks unrepairably).

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#267

Post by arghwhat »

jws wrote: post #60

I married into toaster moguls. When they sold out in '97, domestic toasters had been infeasible for years already. And this was for a company where all the knowledge, equipment, and facilities had beed paid for many decades before. (They invented the electric pop-up toaster for certain definitions of electric pop-up toaster.) Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an a…

> Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an analog computer programmed by human experts.

That hasn't been the case in ages. Modern cheap toasters use a dedicated toaster chip (... yes), which is a plain timer but with built-in retained heat compensation for when the toaster is used back-to-back. Fewer components equals cheaper toaster.

A very fancy toaster would have sensor for the bread (mimicking the Sunbeam) rather than a timer, but that's not common.

Either way, any toaster you buy today is a digital computer. :)

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#268

Post by benj111 »

floren wrote: post #190
frozenport wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the toaster on Amazon have these? If not they are extra.

When too many OOOOLOOO brand toasters start fires, they just close their Amazon profile and create a new one selling FOLGARP brand toasters. You can't have quite that level of untouchability as a US manufacturer, so you have to do it right.

Is FOLGARP an IKEA thing?

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#269

Post by fersarr »

Hackbraten wrote: post #233
floren wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When too many OOOOLOOO brand toasters start fires, they just close their Amazon profile and create a new one selling FOLGARP brand toasters. You can't have quite that level of untouchability as a US manufacturer, so you have to do it right.

I bought this product for my husband and he loves it!

:D

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#270

Post by mpclark »

Glawen wrote: post #213
nothercastle wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not but one of these? Ours has been going strong for 7 years now https://www.dualit.com/products/2-slice-newgen

Great machine, my parents have it, they love it and I love it. Still, I pondered about buying one too, but at 160€ it was a tough sell because we barely make 2 toasts a week. In the end I took a Russel Hobbes made in china for half the price. I kinda regret it because it's bad quality, but for our use it's ok.

I’ve used my Dualit almost daily since 1992. Still in tip-top condition, though it has had two sets of new heating elements at a cost of about £30 each time.
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