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Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

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Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#261

Post by bsdpufferfish »

scrapcode wrote: post #192
prosqlinjector wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elephant in the room is legal liability. If something happens with a criminal employee then the question is raised "what precautions did you take from letting this dangerous person into your workplace".

Does that really cause legal liability, though? The state/federal entity that released them from prison is essentially saying 'okay, we think this person has paid their dues and has a good chance at being a productive member of society.'

You have a lot of faith in public opinion. What would your family and friends think if they found out a teacher at your child’s high school had done 20 years?

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#262

Post by minkiebun »

chihuahua wrote: post #211
al_borland wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was involved in hiring I was told we couldn’t do any online research on potential candidates, like LinkedIn or Facebook, as it might give us information on them being part of a protected class. It’s easier to justify not picking someone based on merit when there is no knowledge of those things.

When I was looking for a job a few months ago, every single application required answering multiple questions about whether I'm Hispanic, and if not, which race I am. Additionally, some employers demand to know my sexual identity AND orientation, which I consider ludicrous and obscene. "Before we can consider your application, we must know who you like to have sex with!" Ostensibly this is for some kind of reporting…

I go with “prefer not to say” and had no problem getting offers as a straight white cis male.

I’ve been a fairly high level hiring manager at multiple firms and those answers never mattered or were even visible to me; even at the VP level.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#263

Post by minkiebun »

technick wrote: post #202
kypro wrote: post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

I'm mostly on board with your proposal as I've seen a felony speeding conviction stop a friend from getting tech jobs over 5 years after it happened. His situation would have been totally different if he was caught 2 weeks before, it wouldn't have been a felony but the state arbitrarily changed the law. He didn't wreck, cause a wreck, or wasn't participating in street racing.

was it speeding plus reckless or evading an officer? If not, what state will press felony charges for straight up speeding?

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#264

Post by netaustin »

As far as I'm aware, the state of play in tech is far more welcoming to formerly incarcerated people than this thread would imply. Justice Through Code at Columbia University is designed to place formerly incarcerated and criminal legal system-involved individuals in tech roles, and has had a lot of success placing its alumni at big tech companies [1]. And this is largely for entry-level tech workers.

Checkr is a commonly used background-check tool, especially in tech, that allows for those with criminal histories to provide context for what's on their record [2], I'm curious if you've encountered it specifically.

To your post about being ghosted, that seems unfortunately to be a common theme in this period of staff contraction that may not be limited to those with criminal records [3], but reneged offers is a bummer, I'm sorry that's happened to you. There's a theme of "owning the narrative" among some formerly incarcerated people that may be worth considering.

Last, a useful resource on humanizing language for those of us without criminal justice histories [5].

[1] https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode

[2] https://checkr.com/

[3] https://medium.com/@k0ryk/everyones-getting-ghosted-dbf0fbaf...

[4] https://fortunesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/final-...

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#265

Post by Biganon »

bsdpufferfish wrote: post #261
scrapcode wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that really cause legal liability, though? The state/federal entity that released them from prison is essentially saying 'okay, we think this person has paid their dues and has a good chance at being a productive member of society.'

You have a lot of faith in public opinion. What would your family and friends think if they found out a teacher at your child’s high school had done 20 years?

Who cares what they think; would a judge consider me liable because I hired the ex felon? If so, aren't they admitting that the criminal system shouldn't be trusted?

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#267

Post by sesteel »

jm4 wrote: post #252
kypro wrote: post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

While I agree that people deserve an opportunity to move on from their past, I still want to know who I’m employing. It’s not just about crimes that may be relevant to the role. Who decides what’s relevant? A crime completely unrelated to my business may be very relevant to someone I already employ. I have a small business where people are working in relatively close quarters. I don’t want to put a rapist, stalker or…

The problem exist for corporations as well. A teenage girl, who was a former classmate and friend of my daughter, was murdered at work because she turned down a man's advances. She made formal complaints, but the bureaucratic corporate processes made it difficult to protect her or sufficiently separate her from the harasser/murderer. Even if the state is an at-will state, corporate policies and mismanagement often handcuff those involved to rectify situations before they get out of hand.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#268

Post by akira2501 »

minkiebun wrote: post #259
akira2501 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be like a credit report. If it's been at least 7 years since your last public criminal record, they should then just fall off your "report," and no longer be visible except to the courts. It used to be that you could pay your debt, and unless your crime was infamous, the "memory" of it would fade from society rather quickly. The internet and private databases have definitely hampered this facility and perha…

Many companies handle background checks in exactly this manner; it’s common for seven years to be a cutoff where they stop caring.

Which is excellent, and should make it easy to codify that into law.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#269

Post by x0x0 »

randomdata wrote: post #236
x0x0 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app and api are on the internet anyway, so you don't need to be a pentester to test it w/ no intention of reporting.

You don't need to be, but there are some big advantages: 1. You get to test the flaws in an environment where nobody will raise an eyebrow. If you go straight for the production system, it is likely your early attempts will visibly show up in the logs. 2. You get paid to carry out malicious deeds. That's a double win. It would be kind of silly not to.

I think it would be silly to do so. You're pulling down $20k+ contracts for a week's work. It's a pretty good gig and completely legal.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#270

Post by [deleted] »

hyperbovine wrote: post #207
technick wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly on board with your proposal as I've seen a felony speeding conviction stop a friend from getting tech jobs over 5 years after it happened. His situation would have been totally different if he was caught 2 weeks before, it wouldn't have been a felony but the state arbitrarily changed the law. He didn't wreck, cause a wreck, or wasn't participating in street racing.

Was he endangering the lives of others? Was it his first time?

[deleted]
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