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Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

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Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#261

Not what you asked, but stories like this are why competition is critical to the economy. All large human systems, government, academia, business, whatever, converge to this. Everybody's comfortable, nobody's working too hard, sure, we'll get to it in a couple months...maybe. The paychecks will keep on coming, we can all go home at 5, everything's great. Then, all of a sudden, some small startup "cuts corners", doesn…

> Then, all of a sudden, some small startup "cuts corners", doesn't fill out the paperwork, kind of ignores all this "compliance" a bit, and somehow...out-executes you with 1/10th the staff, at half the price.

I'd quibble with your word choice and replace "and somehow..." with "because of this". It's apparent to me that you can work faster and do it cheaper when you're cutting corners, which is where some of the value in startups lie (in addition to the actual innovation).

Acquiring companies do a lot of heavy lifting to ensure compliance in all their markets. As a startup, front end devs could push out a feature in half a day; bur that was in (American) English only, with no review of the copy by Legal, and didn't comply with EU accessibility standards on minimum contrast ratio, nor did they check to see of it works with screen readers. Each of these things could cause legal/regulatory/reputation problems for large companies, but all the former-startup engineer sees is bureaucracy - because they are now working at a scale they are not familiar with.

A startup may ignore colorblind users, with no consequences, but the DMV should not. For large societal problems, MVPs do not cut it.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#262
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an ops manager at $big_company like the one described; your response gets it pretty right. There were many many groups that all wanted a slice of our team's time, and it added up to probably a 6 month lead time on all requests. Bringing in skip levels was almost necessary as we sometimes had to have upper management fight over who wants their subordinates' tasks done first. We didn't care who's tasks got done f…

> If their parent company is publicly traded, giving access to the codebase is a huge SOX no-no. Could you please elaborate on this?

Sure. So while Sarbanes Oxley doesn’t contain anything like “thou shalt not commit to a repo”, it’s pretty clear about separation of duties. This means that the person who commits code cannot be the same as the person who deploys (or has access to deploy) the code.

There’s many ways to implement separation of duties that are all valid, but the compliance industry has settled on the concept of least privilege as a framework to enforce this requirement. So if a person external to a dev team wants to write to their code base, the hard rule of least privilege keeps the regulatory train on the rails, so to speak. Keeping that wall between external teams reduces risk in the company, at the cost of increased friction and reduced agility. Consider it a part of the price to pay for investor money.

If you have any other questions I’d be happy to answer!

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#263
I've been in this situation (acquisition 2, below). You will eventually move on to another small company.

Acquisition 1: This was a quite insane dotcom acquisition. The VP Marketing loved us and bought us. The VP Engineering hated us, and dumped all our software first chance she got. Oh, by the way, those two VPs were married to each other.

Acquisition 2: Much smoother. I stayed around for a few years, enjoying coasting after the intensity of the startup. I continued to tinker on the product, and add incremental improvements, but the days of innovation were over. I also enjoyed the huge money they threw at us (raises, bonuses) to keep people around. They really needed to do that because interesting work ceased, and the amount of stupid process and politics was off the charts. (Example: they issued us windows laptops. We promptly wiped them and installed Linux. If service was required, we would have to reinstall windows, get the laptop repaired, and then again wipe and install windows.) I eventually left for another startup.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#264
You could hire with leverage. I for one would be interested in working with some vested stock. Or just add me to slack. Either way I need a web app (node python next react) job or something in machine learning. The most basic foot-in-the-door role would suffice.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#265
This is pretty typical example of culture change when moving from a small organisation to a large one. The thing that makes this sort of culture change so emotionally challenging is that involves a fairly dramatic change in values. This can lead to a lot of feelings of underappreciation and frustration, which can be overcome only by recognizing that values are not immutable and universal, but are instead highly context dependent.

Massively overgeneralizing of course, we can observe the following tendencies: Small organizations tend to value people who are highly responsive and who can work independently in a fairly unstructured and unconstrained operating environment. They tend to value people who can do "whatever is technically necessary" to rapidly solve problems and move the business forward towards it's goals.

As organizations grow, such forward progress is easily stymied and halted by interruptions and context switches from colleagues, and velocity becomes largely a function of how much such "frictions" can be reduced or eliminated. Behaviours and traits which were highly valued and rewarded in a small-organization context (e.g. highly independent problem solving and proactivity) can, under many circumstances, become liabilities in large organizations if they interfere with the smooth running of established processes, or cause disruption and confusion to large numbers of people. Reliability (and above all predictability) become far more important than responsiveness or (sometimes) raw velocity.

Needless to say, being able to adapt behaviours and attitudes depending on context is an exceedingly useful skill, and just because you were rewarded for acting in a particular way in a small organization does not mean that you will continue to be rewarded for acting in a particular way in a big organization. The two are completely different beasts, and it's the communications structure that drives the shift in values.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#266
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the point of a job at a for-profit company is to make money, yes, primarily for yourself and secondarily for the business. This is by no means moral or virtuous. But it is true , and because it is true, the people who admit the truth of it will be more successful in the sense that they will be working with the system, and the people who act as if it is somehow untrue and there is some greater virtue behind…

The end of a for-profit company, I will agree, is to profit, but what end is that for humanity? You imply that moral corruption toward profitable ends is of no difference to those where righteousness in action creates profitability to the owners of the business firm, e.g. honest income. What if the managers you advise working for are evil? You seem to affirm that it is not your problem so long as you are succeeding a…

I think you missed the part where I said this was not moral or virtuous. Don't go looking for virtue. You won't find it.

If the managers you advise are working towards evil (say, they're having you find zero-days to deploy against human rights advocates in the service of murderous autocrats), by all means, stop working for them! But that's very different from the managers not being able to process your feature request until Q2 and asking you to fill out a Google Doc. This is not evil, nor will it benefit humanity to send in some patches to the other team's code and get it shipped tomorrow. Don't go looking for virtue there, either.

To reiterate my point - I'm not saying it's good that the things I'm claiming are true. But I'm saying they are true, and you'd better start by acknowledging the world as it actually is if you want to effectively improve the world as opposed to just ineffectively keeping your conscience clear. Expecting to find virtue at a for-profit business that isn't deliberately opting out of the system (and a startup that decided to be acquired is deliberately opting in) is misjudging reality. But in the same way, so is expecting to create virtue by making your employer a little more efficient at migrating VMs.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#267
twblalock's response in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29641795 is very well and I support that view.

However I want to add an important aspect: The company acquired the company and the deeper they integrate you the more the corporate culture will take over.

If you don't like corporate culture with all it's ups and downs you don't have to have a false sense of loyalty, especially not to the past company. The past company is gone as the owners gave it away.

Thus either accept the change and use the benefits of structure, some saftey and predictability a corporation can give or seek a challenge more to your liking.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#268
> you told us to migrate to your platform, and it literally does not work for our app

You were told to migrate to their platform.

They were not told to change their platform to support your app.

That the request has come from you, an individual engineer, means that it is going to be prioritized far below a request that has come from, say, their skip level's skip level.

You are being told, politely and indirectly, to mind your own business.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#269
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the point of a job at a for-profit company is to make money, yes, primarily for yourself and secondarily for the business. This is by no means moral or virtuous. But it is true , and because it is true, the people who admit the truth of it will be more successful in the sense that they will be working with the system, and the people who act as if it is somehow untrue and there is some greater virtue behind…

What do you mean with "securing your place within the system of being successful"? Just keeping your job? Or are you talking about abandoning other goals than monetary success? I'd say that getting a win/win is more than a achievable within the "system". I.e. I get to do something I enjoy doing, while also getting payed for it. The company gets the output of my labor for a reasonable price. Everyone wins and no one i…

I just mean keeping your job, but to the post above, I mean realizing that because there is no inherent virtue in a for-profit job, there is also no "corruption" simply because there's too much bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is typically in service to a functioning large organization being able to remain large and reliably make money; it's fine.

If you want to do some good in the world, it's a lot better to put up with the bureaucracy and instead direct your energy to some worthy local political cause or something. Trying to make your employer a force for good is a poor plan, because as an organization whose goal is profit, it will never be sustainably motivated by the desire to do good.

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