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Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

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Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#261

Post by zubi »

zubi wrote: post #203

March 2020, heydays of coronavirus paranoia. I came back home from somewhere, put my keys onto the dining table and went to the bathroom to clean up. My girlfriend, upon seeing the key-chain on the table started reproaching me for being careless about hygiene. When I returned from the bathroom I saw her washing the key-chain in the kitchen sink. This time I got angry and asked how come she hadn't thought that the usb…

As a response to those who asked questions here in the comments:

When I finally overcame the shock, the very first thing I did was to ask her if she, or a guest, indeed searched for, or otherwise "input" anything related to usb-sticks or water-proofness into a computer system. The answer was no.

I don't know what to make of it. I don't want to succumb to conspiracy theories of the sort that ambient sound is recorded by our devices at all times. Most plausible explanation is perhaps the one about cognitive bias.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#262

Post by syndacks »

newswasboring wrote: post #216
KaseKun wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, though this is an excellent story, this is just an example of a bias known as "frequency illusion". It happens with a lot of things, like seeing the clock at 11:11 more than you do at 11:09. Or seeing lots of your make/model car but being blind to the hundred of other variants on the road. How many times have you opened up your laptop and not seen a Facebook add for something you just did, or something…

I understand you have used Occam's razor to come to this conclusion. And its a perfectly valid point. But, this particular story has been repeated so many times around me that I am genuinely suspicious. But alas, the only way to know would be to look at the code. And even then we might not understand because its a blackbox type system which is ill understood by even its designers.

How is it that no such scandal has been uncovered? Surely by now some hacker would have been able to prove that a phone is recording, sending to server, processing, and returning relevant ad. Or surely someone would have come forward or whistle blown by now. So I'll quote Hitchen's razor for you:

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#263

Post by walshemj »

bingojess wrote: post #258
beforeolives wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK there are data science groups at banks that target specifically extremely wealthy customers based on their transactions and balances. I think that they only focus on wealthy customers right now because they haven't scaled up properly but the plan is to eventually expand to everyone.

This has happened since banks started selling investment products, wealth managers simply pull up a list of cash heavy accounts who haven't opted out of marketing where they can push investment products. Think is biz model private bankers and 'Wealth Management' arms at banks are built upon

High street banks in the UK don't really have products for HNW its normally high charging OIECs that are not good value.

Ok Nat west has Coutts but not just any euro trash millionaire can get an account there

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#264

Post by walshemj »

ancarda wrote: post #117
zikzak wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person I work with (very knowledgable about tech and IT) uses a flip phone and cash (as much as possible). If they want to send a gift they buy it locally, pack it up, and ship it. Etc. They don't even bank online. Why? Not sure but they have lots of free time and this is how they choose to spend it (trips to see a teller, back machines, part office visits, using public transport to shop for nearly everything).

>Why? Not sure Maybe they are sick of surveillance capitalism and don't wish to be part of it? I'd do the same, but I really don't want a flip phone. Maybe once Pine Phone with GNU/Linux is working reasonably well, I'll switch to that.

I don't do online banking on my primary bank - only on the secondary NatWest one I keep Its reducing the attack surface as I see it.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#265

Post by GekkePrutser »

newswasboring wrote: post #216
KaseKun wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, though this is an excellent story, this is just an example of a bias known as "frequency illusion". It happens with a lot of things, like seeing the clock at 11:11 more than you do at 11:09. Or seeing lots of your make/model car but being blind to the hundred of other variants on the road. How many times have you opened up your laptop and not seen a Facebook add for something you just did, or something…

I understand you have used Occam's razor to come to this conclusion. And its a perfectly valid point. But, this particular story has been repeated so many times around me that I am genuinely suspicious. But alas, the only way to know would be to look at the code. And even then we might not understand because its a blackbox type system which is ill understood by even its designers.

It's actually possible to evoke some interesting responses from the algorithms by reducing the amount of data input.

For example: When I set up a new facebook account for my mother (at her explicit wish), she had no friends or interests marked yet. Facebook showed her some random ads and posts.

During the setup I was scrolling through her timeline and my phone beeped so I stopped scrolling for about 2 seconds. The post shown was a random post about some fish.

When I picked it up, I saw it quickly replacing the next random post with something about the same kind of fish. So evidently it even looks at how long you look at certain content to determine your interests.

I suppose it is possible to derive other algorithmic determinations using similar methods.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#266

Post by mythrwy »

zubi wrote: post #203

March 2020, heydays of coronavirus paranoia. I came back home from somewhere, put my keys onto the dining table and went to the bathroom to clean up. My girlfriend, upon seeing the key-chain on the table started reproaching me for being careless about hygiene. When I returned from the bathroom I saw her washing the key-chain in the kitchen sink. This time I got angry and asked how come she hadn't thought that the usb…

I've put normal USB sticks through the washing machine, retrieved them from the dryer lint screen, and had them still work!

(don't recommend it of course)

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#267

Post by zeeshanqureshi »

What I find surprising (and even mildly terrifying) is that such anecdotes don't even alarm people in many circles of the society any more. Lots of folks think this is what the future is supposed to look like and are completely ok with it.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#268

Post by walshemj »

gambiting wrote: post #141
ecopoesis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because credit card rewards aren’t free? Banks compete for credit card consumers by offering rewards. Those rewards cost them money. Selling consumer information is another revenue stream to make up for the cost of rewards. Most consumers are okay with this trade off: they get their airline miles / low interest / cash back in exchange for their purchase history.

Credit cards are such an American thing though. Here in UK pretty much everyone uses debit cards with no rewards. I actually have a credit card just for emergencies but it offers no rewards either.

CC in the UK use to have some nice rewards - and there are advantages in buying some thigs via credit card holidays for example.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#269

Post by GekkePrutser »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #250
KaseKun wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, though this is an excellent story, this is just an example of a bias known as "frequency illusion". It happens with a lot of things, like seeing the clock at 11:11 more than you do at 11:09. Or seeing lots of your make/model car but being blind to the hundred of other variants on the road. How many times have you opened up your laptop and not seen a Facebook add for something you just did, or something…

Bullshit, Facebook was found around 2015-2016 to be draining iPhone batteries with background audio sessions. While they may have gotten more efficient with their methods it wouldn't be surprising if they were still recording audio. There's a moral hazard that incentivizes any company that can do so to bug user's homes for advertising purposes. IMO it should be illegal.

I doubt it though, on Android 11 it now tells you when your phone is recording audio (I see it during a whatsapp call for example) and as far as I know iOS has something similar (an orange dot IIRC).

So they would be caught out pretty quickly if they did this.

I'm sure they did it before though, ultrasonic identifications during TV ads etc were really a thing.

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