Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

news.ycombinator.com

261–270 of 272 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#261
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago when I was 30. I tried a few medications. When I as on Vyvanse, I noticed similar personality changes as what you described. Most notably, my sense of humour suffered. (And before on dexamphetamine, I was really grumpy when it wore off. So I did get into fights.) Things got better after I changed to methylphenidate. For me, it's milder in the side effects. Modafinil and nicot…

What was the diagnosis process like? I'm in my early 30s and have been putting off trying to get an ADHD diagnosis (and medication) even though the symptoms clearly resonate, because I'm concerned that I'll be dismissed as just seeking pills. In college I tried to get diagnosed and was dismissed as lazy and just seeking a prescription. Did you have to deal with any of that skepticism?

If you can afford it, go to a specialist (ie Seattle's Hallowell Todaro ADHD Center). It will probably be more expensive and might take longer to get evaluated, but you'll be taken seriously and it's easier to advocate for yourself and your medication when the medical providers don't automatically jump to "pill seeking".

I'm not sure about my current provider, but the place that diagnosed me would let patients complete evaluations at a slower pace if they couldn't afford everything right away.

Also, before I switched to a specialist after moving, I tried asking my GP for my RX and they went straight to "pill seeking", however, they would still allow me to get my script if I came in every month for a drug test.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#262

"Lazy" is just another way of saying that you're not doing something somebody else thinks you should be doing. Nobody is lazy at playing video games or eating a favorite food. If you like doing it, you do it. You can't be lazy. You can only be lazy in some kind of context where you or others judge you and find you wanting. So two pieces of advice. First, stop judging so much. Do what you love doing and don't feel the…

Sadly I am lazy about playing video games. Have a baseball sim open for a week but I keep choosing a nap.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#263
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I open my favorite moleskin A4 5mm graph notebook (graph paper is the only correct paper for notebooks btw), which is a treat to write on, I grab my favorite pen and start listing the tiniest, smallest steps I can make towards the solution. Like "Open IDE and two terminals and point terminals to correct branch". First, I enjoy the process - moleskin + favorite pen. Second, my brain started to think about the ta…

have you tried dot-grid paper? All the benefits of graph paper (easy to draw lines and boxes, and have a straight edge to write along) but the "grid" fades into the background. Come to the dot grid side. We've got better drawings. ;)

I shall try that, thank you =)

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#264

I'm using a throwaway account for this because I don't want to be this candid with any account that can be traced back to me. After reading some of the response mentioning ADHD and the issues people have, I wanted to talk about my issues and see if it resonates with anyone else and if others relates to it. It's not something I ever really discussed with anyone and I do think it would be good for me to hear from other…

We are in very similar shoes. I get freaked out by administration and bureaucracy. I haven't submitted my taxes for years now. I stalled credit card payments and abandoned companies, never collected payments for my contracting jobs I've finished... Work is not a problem for me either, I do what needs to be done, but not much more. I also had negative cycles that eventually lead to my GF dumping me. For me, the soluti…

Thanks For the encouragement! What kind of methodology does your therapist use? Is there a good way to choose a therapist?

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is called delegation of responsibility. If you are not qualified to make a certain professional decision or if such a decision exceeds your delegated responsibility then you need to bring somebody else in, possibly a supervisor. Delegation more often happens toward subordinates than supervisors, but I don't see how that's relevant. My response here was to your statement that, "If you are afraid to associate a…

> Delegation more often happens toward subordinates than supervisors When a subordinate lacks sufficient delegated responsibility they need to call in a supervisor. Delegation flows downward from an authority. When the delegated responsibility is exceeded the authority needs to be involved. > Similarly, most of the time, you'll only ever have more information available to make decisions the longer you wait, not less.…

> Delegation flows downward from an authority.

Yes, exactly. You originally described delegation as flowing upward toward authority (so the opposite) when you said, "That is called delegation of responsibility. If you are not qualified to make a certain professional decision or if such a decision exceeds your delegated responsibility then you need to bring somebody else in, possibly a supervisor."

> In my experience that is a commonly believed blanket assumption that rarely occurs in practice. Risks tend to increase over time in the absence of controls enforcement.

Agree to disagree then. I've found that this occurs frequently in practice. I've already given examples.

> I am not discounting the value of education, but you would never hire a medical doctor who has never touched a scalpel or a trial lawyer who has never performed at trial.

In typical hospital settings, patients are assigned to doctors, and they can have little experience; it's called residency. Secondly, are you saying you'd rather work with a doctor with no education than one with no experience? There is a reason that doctors and attorneys with little experience are allowed to practice, but doctors and attorneys with little education are not.

This does not even include the fact that doctors and attorneys are _constantly_ reading and researching from studies (for diseases and treatments) and case law (for precedents), respectively, for which they have little to no experience.

> This is a logical fallacy called reaffirming the consequent.

No, it's not. What I said has nothing to do with reaffirming the consequent. I don't even know how to respond to this non-sequitur.

> You cannot know if a decision will be more well informed by waiting unless you have waited and reflected upon that delayed decision.

Yes I can, because I'm constantly learning. At any given point in time, I have more information than I did at any prior point in time. So, everything is always more informed the longer I wait. How much more well informed, or how relevant the additional information varies.

> This is a reckless line of thinking since a given risk profile with change during that period of waiting regardless of whether the assertion holds true.

Reckless means with a lack of caution or consideration for consequences. My original response concluded with, "The hard part about making decisions often isn't just the decision itself, but also in understanding the risks and trade-offs of making a potentially wrong decision now, versus making a better informed decision at a later time, and deciding which is the better approach for any given decision that needs to be made."

I would argue your advice is more reckless, since it's advocating less critical thought on a per-decision basis by prescribing a one-size-fits-all methodology for decision making in your original statement that, "It is better to make a wrong decision early than to put that decision off to a future time."

> Assuming risks are an unchanging constant and that the only thing that changes is the information you receive and also assuming there is never cost associated with a delay then yes it would make sense to procrastinate on many decisions, as much as possible, in the hope you will become supremely well informed, but this is extremely unrealistic.

Whether risks are constant or variable doesn't change whether or not a decision should be made quickly or delayed, so I'm not sure what you're saying here. Constant high risks could mean a quick decision is better, while constant low risks could mean a delayed decision is better. Likewise increasing risk could mean a quick decision is better, while decreasing risk could mean a delayed decision is better. Either scenario could go either way, which is exactly why my original point was that you should evaluate on a per-decision basis which is actually better, instead of following a dogma that one is always better than the other.

I also already gave examples where delayed decisions made sense, and they did not involve any of the assumptions you claim to be requirements for a delayed decision to make sense. There doesn't need to be no cost, there can be little cost. You don't need to be supremely well informed, you can just be better informed.

Yes, your reductio ad absurdum argument (speaking of logical fallacies) would be extremely unrealistic as you pointed out. Thankfully, none of those things are necessary for a delayed decision to potentially be better than a quick decision.

> Its a matter of making better decisions and reducing risk over time. Its not about universal truths. That's what religion is for.

The one-size-fits-all prescription to decision making in this original statement is the universal truth I was objecting to:

> It is better to make a wrong decision early than to put that decision off to a future time.

I was pointing out that this isn't always true (i.e. not a universal truth).

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#266
Treat it as any other addiction. Easiest way to overcome it is to simply, stop.

There are countless forums, help lines, government/private programs for addiction and it still exists.

The power is within and wholly dependent on you. A microdose of LSD occasionally with a focus on changing this aspect of yourself might help.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#267
There are some good theories regarding delayed gratification and behavioral modifications you might find useful.

First, how good you are a choosing to wait to receive a reward later has a strong bearing on how difficult of a problem you can solve, because working on a problem is what feels rewarding, solving the problem is. To that end there are certain habits you can pick up that greatly help with modifying your behavior, and provide a sense of success before the overall problem is solved.

The first thing I recommend is to make your own lists of short tasks that need to be completed. This in itself can be satisfying because writing the list is effectively your first finished task.

Next, after completing a few tasks you need to reward yourself with something you enjoy. It shouldn't take much time to do, but it should be something you won't get easily board of. Continue rewarding yourself after a set number of tasks. Generally, you should be getting a reward about once an hour to start out, not more. After a few days, maybe a week, increase the number of tasks you must complete for a reward. Continue increasing the number of tasks per reward every few days. If you find yourself losing motivation, then decrease the number of tasks required.

Just a few tips, the reward should be something that you can do quickly and that you can resist doing while you're still working. The reward should be mildly habit forming, but not addictive. Also, if it's food related you might want to make it small enough that it won't make you fat. A favorite candy can be a good choice so long as you can make the rewards small but still satisfying. It also shouldn't be something complicated or distracting to other people. If it's too complicated that can kill your own productivity. It also helps if you take a short break like 5 minutes per reward or at least take short breaks a few times a day even without a reward.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is probably an influence from inherent personality differences, but I would speculate that building up stamina for tackling hard problems comes down substantially to practice. I was diagnosed with ADHD my senior year of college. Before that, the mindset you're advocating got close to breaking me.

My “mindset” (if you can call it that) is that most people don’t get much experience tackling hard problems, at least up through school. In light of that, what I would “advocate” is that people should try to get practice working on problems at their current level of stamina/ability (which might be very low), and slowly work their way up, instead of beating themselves up when a problem much more difficult than what th…

I usually just lurk here but something in your comment made it impossible for me to ignore. I do not want to be rude but think you are behaving exactly like a pushy parent who would cause the sort of trauma OP is facing right now.

This constant push for a 3.5 year old to read books that clearly require more mental effort than is okay for his/her age, play 'logic' games that he/she can get no joy from are a huge red parenting flag. You might have good intentions but your relentless need for him to raise up to these arbitrary standards of yours that have been created without any regards for his/her happiness are going to put so much unsustainable pressure on the kid.

By forcing your kid to play with the games he can not understand or reading the books he doesn't like, you are just stealing his/her childhood. I can only hope that you realize this sooner than later.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#269
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you like doing it, you do it. This attitude seems to overlook that there can be a tension between present and future fulfilment. There are things you can do (or avoid doing) now that will make your life a lot less enjoyable later on. Activities that 'make you a better person over time' often require effort, discomfort, or sacrifice of some kind in the present (exercising, studying, therapy, etc...). I don't thin…

IMHO, this relates to your own personal way of attributing value. Future happiness holds more value for you personally for whatever reason - this is great! i am happy for you. an alternative view point which is also sometimes correct is that future happiness holds zero value as you may never get it. I don't know whats really going on but i basically agree that laziness is not a thing. whether its explained by differe…

Any advice on finding a working logical argument? I find myself stuck in unhelpful loops sometimes i.e. Do I enjoy my job? Do I have a sense of purpose in my job?

I realise the answer will be personal and only I can provide it but I'm consistently failing and it's impacting my mood

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#270
Hello, I can relate to that a lot. I don't usually comment on HN, but I'll give it a go on this one.

Also grew up on a high pressure environment, as in: "If you fight at school and lose, you'll get a second beating at home"

- If you can afford, seek professional help. Yeah, a therapist. It will help you to learn how you operate.

- Accountability mirror, from "Can't hurt me" book. Some of stuff in the book is meathead advice, but you're a smart guy, you'll be able to filter it out and adapt. The audiobook is great. Look it up.

- 3sec rule: If you want to do something, don't give yourself time to come up with an excuse not to, because you will convince yourself.

- Commit: Publicly say you'll do it, to the point you'll lose face if you don't. There you go, not doing the thing will hurt more than doing it and then you can trick yourself into not procrastinating.

For instance, I was offered a lead role many times, but refused. Until a day I said: "Fuck it, I'll take it". No time to convince myself otherwise. Now, If I back off or do a poor job, I'll lose face. And it turns out, once you start doing those apparently big things, you learn they are not really a big deal. Then you start feeling more confident.

Finally, be kind to yourself.

Cheers

Post reply on HN