Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#261

Post by asdfman123 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #28

ajxs wrote: post #14

I learned the hard way to not underestimate how competitive and treacherous some people can be in the workplace. I was a long-term contractor in a large company and had an incident where I confided to another employee about some issues I was having negotiating my pay at contract renewal time. I never mentioned any numbers, just that a manager had previously promised me a pay-raise and was not honouring their word. Wi…

You can flip that and say the advice your co-worker needed to hear: don't be duplicitous or treacherous in the workplace. You may think it gets you ahead but this is highly illusory and temporary. When you look back you'll just have anxiety and regrets behind you, if you have decency. And when it's all over, the things you thought were really important at the time won't be, so why be a jerk about them?

Being a jerk might help get what you think you want (money, success) at the price of what you actually need (self-respect, warm relationships).

That is, of course, if it doesn't backfire. Then you get nothing.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#262

Post by teekert » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

throwaway848483 wrote: post #255

teekert wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you are talking about a "level difference" reveals a very 1 (or low) dimensional look on things. Some people may be blend and boring in one dimension i.e. they are not "deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge". But they may have learned to cope with great trauma that would wipe others away. Or they have musical skills or their profession may teach you something (or are…

@teekert I was mainly putting myself on lookathrwaway level, to hopefully provide advice to a fellow Aspie. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as one say. I perceive that there are plenty of different axes to look at things. But I refuse not to see the broken vase as a whole, no matter how beautifully you frame the shiny pieces. Most people have been broken one way or an other. Some even celebrate it ; I find…

You do sound like nice guy and like my "Aspie" friend, very intelligent and fun to talk to.

But my Aspie friend felt genuine discomfort around new things and people and he tried to rationalize it by saying he didn't care. But I think he did care. He even cried for a full room when he left us (almost making many others almost cry as well)!

I think he would be better off admitting his feelings and accepting them trying to work from there. He even told me once he read some research where over-expressing some gene would make people feel less need for control and how this could free him in a way.

But who am I, I may be completely mistaken and project a "Vulcan-like deep emotional life that needs to be controlled" -picture onto him, while this is not how it is. But I felt a bond with this guy, I think we did share very similar thought routines. We both felt a need for control but I felt less fear for unexpected things and human connections, though we certainly both felt the need.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#263

Post by asdfman123 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

bnjms wrote: post #20

ajxs wrote: post #14

I learned the hard way to not underestimate how competitive and treacherous some people can be in the workplace. I was a long-term contractor in a large company and had an incident where I confided to another employee about some issues I was having negotiating my pay at contract renewal time. I never mentioned any numbers, just that a manager had previously promised me a pay-raise and was not honouring their word. Wi…

Can you say white kind of warning signs were on display? This sounds like something I would walk into.

The world is full of fairly nice people who will spill anything you said to them to anyone for any reason in the workplace. And I'm not cynical about people, I just think it's the truth.

There are no warning signs. Just pretend everything you say to a coworker is on a public ledger.

In some cases the true, actual friends you make in the workplace, the ones you'd still hang out with years after your employment, ca be trusted. But it's still probably better to not tell them anything that could make you look seriously bad either.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#264

Post by salixrosa » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

patch_collector wrote: post #87

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

Personally, I like to find what people are interested in, and let them talk about that. I tend to learn things that I didn't know before, which is always interesting. For example, yesterday I was sitting by a guy who started talking about watching the British Open. I don't care about golf. At all. Never played, never even watched it on TV. But through chatting with him, I learned that it's technically just 'The Open'…

> If you try and peel back a layer of what you think is most important, but they don't care about it at all, you won't find anything worth hearing.

I came looking for someone who'd already said this. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Even the stoners I worked with in food service could have some interesting perspectives on, say, why different video games have such different communities.

I mean, yeah, I get it. Kids make me downright uncomfortable, and that alone is often a huge chunk of what people talk about. There are quite simply differences in interests. But then the question is, what are you trying to get out of an interaction?

In this context, I'd say, find out what that person's goals / difficulties are. Are they trying to switch to a different department? Are they trying to get their kid into a particular private school? Remodeling their house? I think keeping track of this sort of information, checking back in on how their efforts are going or giving any small useful anecdotes/advice ("Yeah, I really got screwed by that moving company -- I wish I'd packed my TV more carefully,") does way more, I think, thank talking about sports.

And the great thing is, even if we were all machines, those would be great things to talk about. I've gained incredibly useful information about home ownership just from listening to my coworkers.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#265

Post by squish78 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

world32 wrote: post #125

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

Consider that you might not be as intelligent as you think you are. I'm sure you are aware that there is more than one kind of intelligence right? Although you might have a PhD and be very knowledgeable in many subjects, you sound like you are severely lacking in many other kinds of intelligence. So maybe you are not so different from the "dull" people you speak so poorly of?

Oh boy. I grew up in a family of PhDs and professors, and was immersed in intellectual academic culture from a young age. I love my family, but most of that culture is a bunch of insufferable twats stroking off their egos. After moving out and skipping college, working service industry and 'blue collar' jobs, I realized that (outside of their narrow specialty) PhDs aren't nearly as smart as they think they are. Your philosophical musings are just mental masturbation.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#266

Post by TheArcane » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

NeutralCrane wrote: post #254

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

No offense, but I mean this, earnestly: get over yourself. If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person . You bemoan that you find almost everyone a "paper shell". And yet you are the one who has restricted your opinion of interesting people and topics with a PhD attached to it. You dismiss pursuits…

This is the only proper response to OP's throwaway rant.

If you find a problem with most people you meet, the problem's probably with you.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#267

Post by carusooneliner » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

Talk less and listen more. Learn to ask good questions. You can have an interesting conversation with anyone and life won't be boring.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#268

Post by arafalov » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

shostack wrote: post #66

technofiend wrote: post #55

I hate to admit it but one of my bosses taught me that building consensus is a double edged sword and it can be used as weapon. Up until working with him I naively assumed we could all get in a room, hash out our technical differences and agree to a solution. That only works when everyone is (from your perspective) not a bad actor. But how do you deal with an Executive Director who will bald-faced lie and say whateve…

Can you share more details of the situation? I'm curious what they were lying about and how you pinned them down.

I found the book Political Savvy by DeLuca to be quite a good read on this topic. It is very analytical about the political games in a large organization.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#269

Post by kthejoker2 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

chriswwweb wrote: post #202

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Wow very nice summary of the main ideas of the book, I totally agree, this book is worth reading... I was reading reading "the making of a manager" by Julie Zhuo earlier this month (which b.t.w. I personally think is a very good book), in her book she mentioned the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie (at first I was a bit scared by the title, to me it sounded like a mind control bullshit b…

Carnegie was a big influence (no pun intended) on Charles Manson. But the book itself is 100% effective; I read my personal Cliffs Notes version of it before meeting clients and it absolutely grounds you in the idea that other people just want to be listened to, respected, and successful.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#270

Post by asdfman123 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

brankoB wrote: post #93

onion2k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't matter though. The point of plussing is about how you word your criticism so people don't feel the need to be defensive or antagonistic. If there's a problem that can't be solved for a while there's world of difference between saying "Your code is wrong. This is a problem we can't solve for weeks." and "You've made a great start and this code is going to be really useful as a foundation to build on, but…

What if the code is absolutely terrible and needs to be scrapped ASAP?

There is nothing that you can't express in a kind and constructive manner. Speak objectively, keeping judgments, blame and "you" statements out of it.

"It's been difficult to add new features to the code base because it's grown so much and I think we need to consider a serious refactoring project. The best approach in my opinion is to take the lessons of the past and start over for X and Y reasons."

Will everyone agree with you? Maybe not. Will it work? Maybe it won't. But that's also true if you say "your code sucks," and you won't have to be bogged down in savage internecine code warfare.