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Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

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Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#261

Post by flamingbuffalo »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #197
bradleyland wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find the interface requires that I use the mouse way to often, and I have to know all Apple's special key combinations to get anything done If you expect to get anything done without using the mouse, knowing all the "special key combinations" is a pre-requisite for any OS. I hate to be the kool-aid drinker that jumps to Apple's defense, but I hear a lot of complaints about OS X keyboard accessibility that simply…

Have you found out how to get Linux/Windows Alt+Tab behaviour on OS X? It's one of those things that slows me down 10% whenever I'm on a Mac.

switch among windows:

command + ~

when you get that going with the command tab switching you can fly!

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#262

Post by mkramlich »

trevelyan wrote: post #18
kls wrote: post #6

Yes the MBP is a good machine, and you can get all of the items you listed on OSX. It is a good development platform if you decide to go that route. I have worked exclusively on MBP for the last two generations of my machines. This is coming from a guy that got burnt really bad on the 68-PPC conversion a while back (had basically a brick within 6mo of buying a new 68). That is another story but sufficient to say, I s…

Ubuntu runs hot on the MBP and will chew through your battery power even if you aren't running it in a VM. So MacOS is Unix anyway, you say? Too bad the default libraries are a pain to upgrade, trivial applications like "locate" and "wget" are missing and you'll have to manually configure stuff like page up/page down if you want the terminal to be useful. I've had repeated issues compiling different "cross platform"…

I take issue with several of the items you mentioned:

One, Terminal on Mac is extremely useful, even if the Page Up/Down keys don't work.

Second, those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working.

Third, Mac does come with curl preinstalled, which fits a very similar tool niche to wget.

In general, it is true that there are some Linux-centric tools and packages that currently don't build easily or have preexisting binary ports for Mac, however, that's true in reverse as well. And I can assure you that Mac provides a much more Linux-like experience in a terminal than MS Windows. Also, keep in mind, that with many of the software packages in the Open Source world, it's up to individual people to do the work to get a particular package working perfectly on a particular platform permutation. Nobody "owes" you anything, or guarantees any particular permutation will be perfect. Therefore, while there might be 1000's of libraries and applications that do work perfectly and have equal availability on Linux and Mac, it may not be wise to assume that everything will be, and then cite any specific imperfection as "bizarre" or spectacular failure. It's just software, it's very complex, and if nobody has come before you to smooth that particular cow path then it won't be smooth unless you yourself do the smoothing. :)

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#263

Post by mkramlich »

drats wrote: post #240
Uchikoma wrote: post #40

Am I the only one who is using a Lenovo machine (X200) and hating it and would do nearly everything to go back to a MBP? (X200 feels cheap, plastic breaks, lcd dies, battery replaced twice, hibernation does not work all the time, sound problems, logos flew off, ....) I was using a small Dell laptop at my last job and the quality was much much better than the X200. Essentially after IBM sold them the quality tanked.

For me it's the opposite, I had a white macbook and the casing cracked and the hdd failed (along with an iPhone with 3G that didn't work - powercord that frayed and headphones that died). The X200 on the other hand has a much higher quality keyboard and seems to be a higher quality than all my past Apple products. After being locked into paying for 3G for two years and not having the phone work with it I will not be…

1. the white macbook is by intent their cheapest, and therefore, lowest durability/quality laptop. that's the whole point really. their more expensive product models do have a reputation of being more robust. everything costs.

2. "don't support their products in the slightest" <-- this is hyperbole because it's easily shown to be false by hundreds of stories on the web from people who have had good support experiences with Apple.

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#264

Post by trevelyan »

mkramlich wrote: post #262
trevelyan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu runs hot on the MBP and will chew through your battery power even if you aren't running it in a VM. So MacOS is Unix anyway, you say? Too bad the default libraries are a pain to upgrade, trivial applications like "locate" and "wget" are missing and you'll have to manually configure stuff like page up/page down if you want the terminal to be useful. I've had repeated issues compiling different "cross platform"…

I take issue with several of the items you mentioned: One, Terminal on Mac is extremely useful, even if the Page Up/Down keys don't work. Second, those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working. Third, Mac does come with curl preinstalled, which fits a very similar tool niche to wget. In general, it is true that there are some Linux-centric tools and pack…

> those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working.

Try using vim or other applications that run in the command-line.

> And I can assure you that Mac provides a much more Linux-like experience in a terminal than MS Windows.

Yes. A much more Linux like experience than Windows. And a much less Linux like experience than Linux.

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#265

Post by mgedmin »

cjbprime wrote: post #216

I'd normally recommend a ThinkPad, but they've been pretty disappointing lately. Two very recent experiences: T410s: * sound doesn't work in latest Ubuntu, need a kernel update for a new PCI ID. * battery charge percentage goes from 0-10%, where 10% is "full". Apparently the embedded controller decided to change which units it reports current in. T510: * black screen when booting Fedora or Ubuntu installers. Caused b…

This is often the story with the latest hardware: you have to wait 6 months for it to be supported in Linux :(

When I got my T61, the current Ubuntu (breezy, IIRC) didn't run on it. I installed the alpha of the upcoming version (gutsy) and it kind of limped along; all the newer versions worked just fine out of the box.

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#266

Post by mkramlich »

trevelyan wrote: post #264
mkramlich wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take issue with several of the items you mentioned: One, Terminal on Mac is extremely useful, even if the Page Up/Down keys don't work. Second, those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working. Third, Mac does come with curl preinstalled, which fits a very similar tool niche to wget. In general, it is true that there are some Linux-centric tools and pack…

> those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working. Try using vim or other applications that run in the command-line. > And I can assure you that Mac provides a much more Linux-like experience in a terminal than MS Windows. Yes. A much more Linux like experience than Windows. And a much less Linux like experience than Linux.

vim: k, but vi and other CLI apps tend to already have keys for doing paging that are "native" to the app and/or more "homerow friendly". The Page Up/Down keys on many keyboard tend to be in awkward locations like far off to the right side, for example, of where the center of typing gravity is located.

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#267

Post by juiceandjuice »

jamesg wrote: post #235

I love my Thinkpad. It's had all sorts of tortuous treatment and just keeps on ticking. It was kind of amazing the first time I spilt water on it to have it drain out through the holes in the bottom of it and just keep going (I've also stepped on it, dropped it, etc; I'm actually very careful with my computers, but when you work with it 14+ hours a day for a few years, sooner or later you're going to do something stu…

I have the X61s, totally maxed out the 9 cell battery, 1.8Ghz ULV processor, 4GB ram, and a 7200RPM 160GB hard drive. It still feels faster than most other laptops after more than two years. I had to replace the battery, which was okay because they had them at the lenovo outlet for 45 bucks, and so now I get 6+ hours (true) battery life once again.

Way better than my original first-run 13" white macbook. That being said, I started a new job and I'm getting a maxed out 15" macbook pro. I miss Mac OS, and I'll be living in an IDE, so that's why I chose the macbook. Otherwise it'd be a hard choice between a macbook and a T400S.

The x3* series is now discontinued.

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#268

Post by fauigerzigerk »

flamingbuffalo wrote: post #261
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you found out how to get Linux/Windows Alt+Tab behaviour on OS X? It's one of those things that slows me down 10% whenever I'm on a Mac.

switch among windows: command + ~ when you get that going with the command tab switching you can fly!

No flying here. Cmd+~ doesn't switch to the most recently used window either.

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#269

Post by mironathetin »

jerf wrote: post #257
mironathetin wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Thinkpad had ACPI. But - no offense meant - this is the standard answer, if something does not work. Just upgrade. You do that 20 times, and then you get something that works now, and not after the next upgrade.

For Linux, I personally separate the issues into two issues: "Hardware support is possible but doesn't exist", and "hardware support is impossible because the hardware vendor or standards bodies are either withholding documentation, failed to follow their own standards, or in some cases even actively fighting Linux developers". The "ACPI that only works in Windows" spent quite a lot of time in the latter case. If you…

Alright, point taken. A valid remark.

Re: Ask HN: Best Developer Linux Laptop?

#270

Post by lusis »

igrekel wrote: post #255
lusis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last company I was at provided me a quad-core 8GB mac pro. After the first week I wiped it and put Ubuntu on it so I could actually get some work done. The biggest problem with OSX is that, for a unix-based system, it's so un-unix alike in key places that it's frustrating.

You mean un-unix or un-linux? Which parts?

That's a fair statement. I think there were two big ones: - the service registry/init system - filesystem paths

The second is minor in the grand scheme of things. It only affects my user account but the first one was greatly annoying. My history is in AIX/HP-UX before going Linux full time so I'm familiar with the smit/sam model of doing things but have you ever tried to actually usea traditional unix/linux model for managing apache in the default OSX install? What about LDAP? It's weird and annoying. Launchd? Seriously?

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