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Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#251

Post by generalizations »

wavemode wrote: post #69

Search is primarily a portal - you know a particular resource exists, you just don't know its exact URL. You hear about this new programming language called "Frob", and you assume it must have a website. So you google "Frob language". You hear that there was a plane crash in DC, and assume (CNN/AP/your_favorite_news_site) has almost certainly written an article about it. You google "DC plane crash." LLMs aren't ever…

It's been pretty cool to realize that Grok 3 actually prioritizes up-to-date information: I have actually used it for both kinds of your examples, and it worked.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#252

Post by dijksterhuis »

jrvarela56 wrote: post #50
subsection1h wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have to click or browse several results forget it, makes no sense not to use an LLM that provides sources. I just searched for "What is inherit_errexit?" at Perplexity. Eight sources were provided and none of them were the most authoritative source, which is this page in the Bash manual: https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/The-Shopt... Whereas, when I searched for "inherit_errexit" using Googl…

Why would you even search for that out of the context of the IDE where you're coding or writing documentation? If you're writing bash you'd have all those man pages loaded in context for it to answer questions and generate code properly.

Not GP.

Alt + Tab > Ctrl + T > Type > Enter > PgDn > Click > PgDn > Alt + Left > Click > PgDn > Alt + Left > Click > PgDn > Alt + Tab > [Another 45-60 minutes coding] > GOTO Start

With these keybinds (plus clicking mouse, yuck) I can read Nx sources of information around a topic.

I'm always looking to read around the topic. I don't stop at the first result. I always want to read multiple sources to (a) confirm that's the standard approach (b) if not, are there other approaches that might be suitable (c) is there anything else that I'm not aware of yet. I don't want the first answer. I want all the answers, then I want to make my own choices about what fits with the codebase that I am writing or the problem domain that I'm working in.

Due to muscle memory, the first four/five steps i can do in like one or two seconds. Sometimes less.

Switching to the browser puts my brain into "absorb new information" mode, which is a different skill to "do what IDE tells me to do". Because, as a software engineer, my job is to learn about the problem domain and come up with appropriate solutions given known constraints -- not to blindly write whatever code I'm first exposed to by my IDE. I don't work in an "IDE context". I work in a "solving problems with software context".

==

So I agree with the GP. A lot of posts I see about people saying "why not just use LLM" seem to be driven by a motivation for convenience. Or, more accurately, unconsidered/blind laziness.

It's okay to be lazy. But be smart lazy. Think and work hard about how to be lazy effectively.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#253

Post by coldpie »

coldtea wrote: post #229
wavemode wrote: post #69

Search is primarily a portal - you know a particular resource exists, you just don't know its exact URL. You hear about this new programming language called "Frob", and you assume it must have a website. So you google "Frob language". You hear that there was a plane crash in DC, and assume (CNN/AP/your_favorite_news_site) has almost certainly written an article about it. You google "DC plane crash." LLMs aren't ever…

> LLMs aren't ever going to replace search for that use case, simply because they're never going to be as convenient. Sounds trivial to integrate an LLM front end with a search engine backend (probably already done), and be able to type "frob language" and it gives you a curated clickable list of the top resources (language website, official tutorial, reference guide, etc) discarding spam and irrelevant search engine…

That's called a search engine. We've had them for 30 years. Ahhhhhhhhhhhghh. It's blockchain all over again.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#254

Post by rossdavidh »

I use ChatGPT only occasionally, mostly for laughs, but primarily use Google. It's not as good as it used to be, but it is still the best available. I think there is an opening for a new search engine company now (unlike 10 years ago when Google was unbeatable), and I suppose LLM's might be a part of it. ChatGPT is not it, though.

Same with my wife (non-technical) and teenage daughter.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#255

Post by npilk »

Y_Y wrote: post #240
npilk wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I think of these as two different types of searches - “page searches” where you know a page exists and want to get to it, and “content searches” where you have a more open-ended question. Really, for many “page searches”, a good search engine should just be able to take you immediately to the page. When I search “Tom Hanks IMDB”, there’s no need to see a list of links - there’s obviously one specific page I w…

> Really, for many “page searches”, a good search engine should just be able to take you immediately to the page. Are you feeling lucky?

Exactly :-)

Unfortunately you can’t really show ads if you take someone directly to the destination without any interstitial content like a list of links…

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#256

Post by rikthevik »

I got a few months of free Kagi with a Pragmatic Engineer newsletter subscription and I'm enjoying it. It reminds me of old Google before it got polluted. Kagi can't do anything about the web itself being polluted, but the search experience is good. I use Gemini a lot as well.

I'm very disappointed in Apple that changing the default browser in Safari requires you to install a Safari extension. Super lame stuff.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#257

Post by toyg »

coldpie wrote: post #253
coldtea wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs aren't ever going to replace search for that use case, simply because they're never going to be as convenient. Sounds trivial to integrate an LLM front end with a search engine backend (probably already done), and be able to type "frob language" and it gives you a curated clickable list of the top resources (language website, official tutorial, reference guide, etc) discarding spam and irrelevant search engine…

That's called a search engine. We've had them for 30 years. Ahhhhhhhhhhhghh. It's blockchain all over again.

I think you mean it's SOAP all over again.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#258

Post by bluGill »

Okawari wrote: post #35

I still prefer tranditional search engines over LLMs but I admit, its results feels worse than it has traditionally. I don't like LLMs for two reasons: * I can't really get a feel for the veracity of the information without double checking it. A lot of context I get from just reading results from a traditional search engine is lost when I get an answer from a LLM. I find it somewhat uncomfortable to just accept the a…

I find LLMs useful for the case where I'm not sure what the right terms are. I can describe something and the LLM gives me a term which I then type into a search engine to get more information. I'm only starting to use LLMs though, so maybe I'll use them more in the future? - only time will tell.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#259

Post by nkrisc »

Exclusively. I don't want to think of a question to ask, or think about phrasing some prompt so I get a useful result, I just want to through a few related words and terms into a search box and see where that gets me, and then use the results to refine my search terms further.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use search engines?

#260

Post by klauserc »

Yes, all the time. For reference-level information, I don't trust AI summaries. If I need to know facts, I cannot have even the possibility of a lying auto-complete machine between me and the facts.

Exploratory/introductory/surface-level queries are the ones that get handed to auto-complete.

I like how Kagi lets me control whether AI should be involved by adding or omitting a question mark from my search query. Best of both worlds.

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