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Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

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251–260 of 464 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id pay hundreds for a toaster built like a tank Not because I need that, I just enjoy overly heavy things

The thing about heavy things is their sheer size. There's only so much counter space and cabinet storage. Then again, if you have the disposable cash to spend that kind of money on a toaster, you probably have a kitchen larger than the majority of people's apartment

My espresso machine would like a word. It's pretty compact yet weighs 17 kgs / 37.5 lbs due to essentially being a dense block of stainless steel, copper and brass.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will do Bosch or Miele appliances because it sounds good in a real estate listing, but that’s relying on the cachet of a known brand. I looked at a condo once with an interesting sort of art deco kitchen on and a custom refrigerator that fit the theme. My first thought was, it’s got to be hell to get parts for that or find someone who knows how to work on it.

I have read numerous posts on HN where Miele appliance owners swear by their reliability and repairability. I see Bosch mentioned less often.

"I have read numerous posts on HN where Miele appliance owners swear by their reliability and repairability."

Used to be. We had the same Miele devices for years, but I think their modern versions got downhill as well.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not there to help incumbents. New companies come up all the time to make these kinds of products. Its a barrier to entry to keep Joe dipshit who learned how to solder together two wires last night thinking he can has an overnight get rich quick scheme shoddily throwing some random components together without knowing or acknowledging what they are really doing and selling that product to some unsuspecting person t…

I thought this was America, why are we infringing on Joe Dipshits god given right to sell incendiary devices on random delay timers to unsuspecting members of the public?

Nonsense! I did my own research, and I purchased this incendiary device on purpose!

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

Its not there to help incumbents. New companies come up all the time to make these kinds of products. Its a barrier to entry to keep Joe dipshit who learned how to solder together two wires last night thinking he can has an overnight get rich quick scheme shoddily throwing some random components together without knowing or acknowledging what they are really doing and selling that product to some unsuspecting person t…

>unsuspecting

Therein lies the crux, I think. Perhaps lowering the consumer trust barriers boosts the economy, perhaps it's the road to hell.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you, but arent you suspicious of the Big Toasta superconglomerate.

Although I don’t want random delay incendiary devices either, I do have some sympathy with OP. The net effect of all regulations like this means large classes of business are not feasible unless you have substantial capital. And availability of capital for good ideas is not at all evenly distributed in our society (the UK at least). This is just one more way that we are going to entrench low social mobility. Note als…

> Note also, it’s not just electronics regs that act in this way - our societies have become much more regulated and rule bound in my life time. Often things for good reason.

After WW2 we were in a high-trust, low-barrier society state across the Western world [1]. You could leave your door unlocked and no one would come and rob you, your children could roam free as they pleased, you could start what could become a multi-billion dollar enterprise in your garage and neither the IRS nor "HOA enforcers" would raise an eyebrow or keep annoying you with audits, you could afford a home with a garage in the first place even as a blue collar worker. And that worked out pretty well in retrospective - we had a literally booming economy from both large giants as well as small startups, people had lots of children as they actually had money, employees in companies had actual freedom to decide things even on lower levels where the actual work happened, employees entered their company at 16-18 and left at 65-ish, and the focus of upper management was to keep the company healthy.

Around / after the fall of the USSR, things took a serious nosedive all at once. A lot of solid blue-collar employment got moved off overseas, poverty shot through the roof (and with it, related crimes like burglaries and robberies), IRS shifted from enforcing the tax code fairly to focusing on small businesses and people (partially because the uber rich and international megacorps now employed sizable amounts of lawyers and tax specialists that created schemes that were way too complex for the IRS to dig through), companies more and more focused on quarterly results, short-term benefits and financial plays instead of sustainability (we're seeing right now with Boeing how a once proud company has fallen to the MBA beancounters), employers completely forgot about responsibility for their workers and hired-and-fired them in response to said quarterly results, the resulting loss of trust led to absurd micromanaging from above, and everyone in general went for "side hustles" and squeezing out some tiny amounts of money for themselves by tricking others because there was no other way.

And the combination of all of that is IMHO what created the low-trust society state we are in: we cannot trust our neighbour, our employer, a random hobo on the streets, the government, no one any more.

[1] Yes, I know, distrust against non-Whites, LGBT, ... was a (massive) thing but that's not my point here. And yes, I'm painting a rose-colored picture, and realities could vastly differ.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#256
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>washing machines Among your examples I think this one is interesting. Speed Queen is regarded as among the best washing machines + dryers and they are made in the US. They are extremely well built, they feel really sturdy to use and also are known for being extremely reliable. I guess what I'm imagining is the Speed Queen of toasters..

They’re also known to use a ton of water, be extremely inefficient, and destroy your clothing much faster than a modern washer. Fetishizing “the good old simple times” isn’t going to get us to better products.

Using a ton of water is a plus. Saving water is a necessity in overcrowded megalopolises maybe, imposed on all the rest.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#257
post #16

I've had a similar idea, except in addition to toasters, it's midsize pickup trucks, washing machines, dryers, dishwashers... What I've found is that regulations make it impossible to sell simple machines, labor costs make it impossible to compete on price, lawyers make it impossible to go to market without being sued, and consumers who say they want reliable, well-made goods will balk and buy cheap stuff en masse wh…

> midsize pickup trucks, washing machines, dryers, dishwashers... "simple machines"?

To be fair, washing machines are extremely simple. The trucks, a little less so.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they do. You can see the "UL" mark on the product label

Are you sure it's the original label and not a fake? Just recently a German tech channel reviewed a "gaming PC" sold on Amazon. The power supply had a fake CE label (aka it's illegal to sell in the EU) and the graphics card was a used Chinese crypto mining card that caught fire before they were done testing.

I don't think it was in earnest. The label could definitely be fake.

CE - labels are a mess. First of all, you can self-certify. So the label may be correct but the certification shady. Then you can of course just slap on a CE label on something which isn't even certified.

To add insult to injury, China made a virtually indistinguishable CE label which means "China Export". Thanks, China.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure I'm missing some things Sufficient capital is the big thing that turns everything else into a technical detail. I mean UL certification is only a problem when the venture is under-capitalized.

Very true. Most of these things can be contracted for, there are people like me that do these things. But it's not cheap. It's become somewhat of a litmus test for me. If potential clients are are surprised by the time, cost and effort if these things, it's usually a sign they're not a well thought out venture, and therefore not a great client.

> It's become somewhat of a litmus test for me. If potential clients are are surprised by the time, cost and effort if these things, it's usually a sign they're not a well thought out venture, and therefore not a great client.

This is a pretty good litmus test also for consulting. The amount of companies out there who think they can get an entire mobile app integrated to an existing companies infrastructure (that itself comprises of random SaaS apps from small companies with no APIs) for the equivalent of 2 months of work by one developer is quite astounding.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#260
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FOLGARP is the best. Three out of four of the couples I gifted those toasters are now deceased and will never demand a gift from me ever again. The fire investigators just call it an “act of god.” Unfortunately the fourth only burned their house down and now we have to tolerate an insufferable GoFundMe campaign because their CA fire insurance only covers gender reveal parties. Bezos ruins everything.

Yeah, these fr*cking toasters are out to get humans. Ask colonel Saul

I did, but he just keeps trying to cut the corners off all my paper.
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