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Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

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Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#251
post #227

Consider that "being in love with programming," is an odd thing to say. Love is an emotion best reserved for the people in your life that you could never live without. The act of programming is a means to an end. The act of creating art is a means to an end. It doesn't keep you up when you're down, it doesn't check in to see how you're feeling; creating something is often emotionally draining. You have to dig deep in…

I agree with you when it comes to programming-as-work, but hard disagree about not being in love with a process/activity. People fall in love with playing/creating music, writing, gardening--whatever it is that nourishes their creative and nurturing spirit. In fact I would say that if you don't love the process and are only interested in the outcome, you're doing it wrong. "The journey is its own reward" and etc.

I've been programming since I was a kid. My professional career is more than twenty years long so far (and counting!). I still program every day. I stream myself programming once a week. I enjoy programming.

Sure, there are those who enjoy programming from a purely intellectual point of view just as their are mathematicians who focus on pure mathematics. It can be rewarding in and of itself.

But I still reserve love for relationships. I don't believe you have to love programming to be good at it, to enjoy it, or to do it properly. It's a technical skill, there is plenty of research to do, etc: but it is something you do because you choose to.

Framed in this perspective, when you are not satisfied with programming, it is not because you are, "falling out of love." It is something else: the work, the process, the tools, the project: something is not giving you a sense of satisfaction, reward, etc. Not enjoying it is not a moral failure or a breakup. It's because the tools are crap, you don't believe in the project, or you simply enjoy programming different things than what you are being paid to develop.

No need to go off into the woods with these romantic visions of becoming a cabinet maker in a small commune.

If you want to continue to enjoy programming you have to compartmentalize your feelings, manage it, and nurture it like a skill for the long term.

Sure, I remember programming on the Amiga 500 in the late 80s. It was neat. Fun. But also severely limiting, frustrating, and lonely. It took a lot of work to get machines from that era to do basic things we take for granted today.

The first programming language I learned was not the first language I used professionally. The first language I used on the job is not the language I use today. The technology changes. Things develop and programming today is a lot more open, free, and accessible than it was when I was growing up!

If you fall in love with programming and it doesn't reciprocate those feelings for you, you'll be waiting around forever. You may end up frustrated or hurt. Annoyed even. Jealous when it seems like it comes more naturally to others!

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#252

The red tape is garroting us. My wife's dev environment VMs are 'remediated' at 8pm regardless if she's using them or not - there is no override policy - and the company is singing the success story of saving 40 dollars in licensing. At another corporation, it can take several weeks to learn how to fill out the IAM role and permission boundaries to allow a new app to run - and a governance board has to review it and…

> My wife's dev environment VMs are 'remediated' at 8pm

What does remediated means in this context?

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " All of this, to dabble in code " I'm not a professional programmer, and when my laptop takes 10 minutes to start moving the mouse cursor smoothly after waking from a weekend suspend (today!), I'm pointing fingers at you all, the professional "dabblers" who don't understand computers, don't understand firewalls, don't understand databases, don't understand algorithms, don't understand garbage collectors, don't und…

It's the red tape blocking developers from actually working on fixing the problems you describe.

Yet curiously, there doesn't seem to be any red tape blocking them (us) from pushing out broken changes that no one wanted in the first place?

This seems to be an increasingly common theme these days. Some harebrained thing is released seemingly with no review or testing whatsoever, just because some dev (or worse, a "UI/UX expert") decided they wanted to. It breaks some existing use case and suddenly we need a 2, 5 even 10 year discussion about how difficult it would be to fix -- nevermind if no one wants or uses the new thing even after all that time.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, set up your dev environment? And if you were just setting up your dev environment your working tree wouldn't be dirty. Your impossibly pessimistic scenario is sadly impossible.

There literally is not a problem on this list I have not run into in my real life career. If setting up your environment requires all this, your environment is too complicated. But unfortunately, many production projects require environments this complicated.

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Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#255

> Any project I work on is connected to a million different tools, workflows and services, I was just skimming and read that, and I thought "he is working in Javascript" and yep, later on that's it. I stay away from the Javascript/TS ecosystem (npm et al). I program mostly in Go, but also quite a bit in Typescript. I would learn/use (even if for personal projects) more boring tech stacks, like Java/C#/Go/PL-SQL/T-SQL…

I have several side projects where I use a simple Spring Boot backend and I feel I can focus more on the fun part (solving problems). It just works! There is also a huge eco system of good quality open source libraries compared to some of the newer backend languages. This feeling is absent from React-based apps. The React eco system has been around for many years now, but is missing many of the advantages age typical…

"I have several side projects where I use a simple Spring Boot backend and I feel I can focus more on the fun part (solving problems)."

I tried to do side projects with Spring Boot and I also worked with it professionally. I never got to the point where I can focus on just solving problems, I'm always fighting with the framework, looking for how to do certain things in the depths of blogs and stackoverflow because I can never find what I need in Spring docs. I actually find it interesting how some people seem to be very productive with it, while others have issues similar to mine.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#257
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very reactionary take here. Blaming developers for everything that's wrong is just as bad-wrong as blaming everything on management, the C-suite, capitalism, or anything else. I've worked with some very ignorant, lazy, incompetent, individuals. Some had 'programmer' or 'developer' in their title, others were managers or product owners or QA, etc. etc. I do agree with your last point. I expect the real-world consequen…

There is nobody else who could have written good code, except developers. There is nobody else who kept rewriting X-Screensaver clones insecurely for 17 years[1] except developers. Nobody else who has knowledge or experience to standardise on tools for the greater good. There is nobody else who wrote Jira but developers. There is nobody else who only wants to do Electron, or who refuses things like UAC because securi…

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Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#258
post #213

You hate work, not programming. I left programming as a career, and now use it in support of the website I run. I went from dreading going to work to skipping meals because I can't lift my hands from the keyboard. The passion came back, and it's stronger than ever. You know what's fun? Just building stuff on our own terms, and going outside when the cafeine wears out. I overengineer or hack together as I goddamn plea…

Are you willing to share any more details about how you made this happen? A lot of what you wrote really resonated with me. There's a side project I've been working on for 2 years (and hope to monetize soon) and even though the honeymoon phase of "new project" is well past, I still am so excited to work on it every day. But I *hate* work, for all the reasons you and others in this thread have mentioned. Recently it's…

The trick is to get lucky once. There's nothing more to it. It was a work of love that panned out.

If I had to start again tomorrow, I'd probably really struggle to reproduce that success.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#259
As a solo founder with a TypeScript/Next.js site I feel the opposite. Going from coding to production almost feels like cheating. Edit, test, publish. No red tape, only facing direct feedback on success or failure. I realize you probably cannot debloat your stack or procedures but there is still joy and productivity in web development.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#260

I'd argue the current culture is set up to create this very scenario. You've realized that your work is stripped of many elements of creativity in the name of making you replaceable. Of course, we can't say that last part, so we instead talk up how great tooling is, and how quickly we can onboard people (Nobody asks why there is such a need to onboard people so often, or so quickly.) When your pursuit of mastery is t…

> Now contemplating specializing in another domain to spice things up again.

How do you get in? Basically any domain that’s not just enterprise line of business crap, and SaaS apps seems to only ever hire seniors/staff/whatever developers with 10 years of of hyper-specific domain knowledge or new grads they managed to source a [State University] Recruiting Event. Hell I’ve been rejected in otherwise normal web dev jobs here recently because I didn’t have experience in a specific domain.

I mean I can teach myself lots of things, but that doesn’t mean that I’ll just be able to waltz into a job.

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