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Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

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251–260 of 576 posts

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve ever written code, and if you’ve ever written a bug, then you will understand that code as law is terrible idea, especially when it comes to finance.

> code as law is terrible idea I don't know exactly what you mean by 'code as law', and I'm sure there are extremists that think smart contracts make law obsolete, but they are just wrong. Fraud via smart contract is still fraud. Theft via smart contract is still theft. There's nothing about having automatic processing of transactions that means you get to just ignore the legal system in your country. And that's fine…

With smart contracts there is only the code. There is no external trusted documentation that says what the intention of the code is. If the contract allows for an action to occur, then that action is permissible.

It's the old quote taken to an extreme, "The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do."

If there is a 'bug' that allows anybody to empty a smart contract, well it turns out that you were just hosting a complex coding competition with a prize.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve ever written code, and if you’ve ever written a bug, then you will understand that code as law is terrible idea, especially when it comes to finance.

"If you’ve ever written code, and if you’ve ever written a bug, then you will understand that code as law is terrible idea, especially when it comes to finance." If your argument is that there could be bugs in the code, then how is this different from the law today? The legal system is rife with abuses and injustices. It most certainly has bugs as-is.

Indeed, bugs are a feature

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#253
post #40

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

Hard to tamper with data loggers also benefit from the Blockchain. There are lots of industries where tamper proof records are valuable and record keeping is distributed.

Such usecases actually run into an economic problem.

You can't just create a proof-of-work blockchain to hold your records. That blockchain also have to be a functioning economy with a large enough market cap to pay out mining rewards that are large enough to make a 51% attack economically nonviable. If you fail to do so, or the economy falls apart, all tamper-resistance just disappears.

It actually ends up being cheaper just to trust a group of authorities, and pay auditors to make sure they are being trustworthy.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#255
post #146

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

> The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party I would add that in nearly all cases it is totally reasonable to have a trusted party, and therefore that the value of the blockchain collapses down to a very, very small number of use cases (the ones that we all know about - fraud, extortion, money laundering, tax avoidance).

To be fair, also asset transfer out of authoritarian monetary regimes.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#256
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't attempt to enumerate the ways that crypto is useful. But i'll tell you how I want to use it. But first, it's important to understand this. The actual foundations for what crypto can enable is still being built, so if you're expecting me to show you some "killer app"... i'm not going to show you a working version today. Is that because Crypto is vaporware? No, i'm seeing important stuff deployed all the time.…

in my experience volunteering at a dao, daos increase coordination effort required and have yet to yield additional productivity. i wonder which pieces we are missing to get to your theoretical world of increased efficiency.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#258
I'm almost tempted to say that you're wrong on both accounts, that vapourware doesn't get prolonged attention and that blockchain is pure vapourware.

But to focus on the first one: homeopathy was invented in 1796 and is still going strong, with national health systems having committees on how to deal with it, even some accredited universities offer courses at least covering homeopathy too. And that's despite its impressive 200-year record of complete absence of evidence that it has any effects. Various forms of alchemy were complete vapourware and yet courted and sponsored by monarchs. Also in our enlightened days there are people building (and crashing with) rockets to 'prove' that our earth is flat, newspapers print horoscopes and the previous US president touted things worse than vapourware as cures for a global pandemic. Looking at the history of ideas, I'd almost say we're living the exception, with so many ideas that actually work.

Re blockchain, if you take it to include the whole "crypto" (web3) space, it's gone from implementing papers from 20+ years prior (Byzantine Fault Tolerance) to papers from a few years ago (Zero Knowledge Proofs). It's had societal impact in creatig a global subculture of crypto 'bros' that donated (at least) $100m to Ukraine (and also to other causes like India Covid relief), and created outlandish investment returns for early adopters.

In terms of the tech or what it can do, blockchains allow trustless peer-to-peer transactions, and smart contracts allow making trustless binding future commitments. The latter is no small feat if you consider that the difference between cooperative and non-cooperative game theory is precisely the ability to make binding commitments (think of what the rational action in a prisoner's dilemma would be if you had a third move of entering a smart contract that plays the cooperative move on behalf of both parties if and only if both sides committed, and defects on behalf of that player if only one committed - would you still choose to defect unilaterally, or would you rather enter the contract?). You might say that we already have a legal system and courts that can enforce commitments, but in reality not everyone on this planet has equal access to such a system. Smart contracts will always be "beneath" the courts (as in, if someone wants to renege on their commitment, eg because the contract didn't do what they thought it would, the courts will always have the final word), but they can remove a lot of friction, especially for smaller projects and if parties are in muliple countries.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#260
post #198
post #75

You're missing the fact that it enabled purely online/digital money people will actually use. You could build an online currency with a database much more easily than blockchain but people won't use it because it relies on a central authority to maintain the database and not enough people will trust that central authority not to misuse their power. It was tried a bunch of times in the past and never worked. Fundament…

> It was tried a bunch of times in the past and never worked. Sorry, EUR and USD and KES (Kenyan shilling, uses a great cheap payment system on mobile phones called M-Pesa) and XRP (Ripple, a "crypto currency" with a central authority) don't work? I hadn't noticed.

XRP is special in that it's distributed, but I wouldn't call it decentralized (so you're completely correct in calling it a crypto with a centralized authority). For instance it's possible for nodes to block other nodes at their whim. This is a very attractive trait for banks or groups of banks. But similarly it's a very bad trait for any smaller actor. So sure, it works, but it also gives up huge amounts of control to central authorities. I mean, if you're OK with giving up your freedom to uncontrollable inflation, then go right ahead and use it!
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