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Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

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251–260 of 813 posts

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#251

This is probably an unpopular view, but I kind of use laptops as if they were terminals. If you want to spend $2k, I'd invest $1600 of that in a great desktop machine, and spend the other $400 on a cheap chromebook and tablets / keyboards / gizmos to log into it remotely.

This only works if both the desktop and the notebook are always online and on a good connection. For the desktop, this is doable (although not everywhere, first world is pretty good connected but besides that it can be really hard). For the notebook, it all depends.

Fair. I locked in an good price for fiber at my house. I only have to worry about the quality of my connection away from home. That's just cost of doing business though.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#252

Lenovo has some pretty good sales on thinkpad X1s (at least they do in Canada - didn't check the US site). But, if you're in Canada, I just bought this: https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16834233446?Description=gigabyte... It's got a gorgeous 4K OLED screen, a quite decent CPU and GPU, and it's currently $350 off + a $300 mail in rebate (there was an additional $350 off over the easter weekend, too). The track pad is not m…

How does the display work for you in bright daylight? I couldn't find any definitive information about the OLED option if it's more glossy or more matte.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#253

Speaking of longevity, given the performance of m1 and absence of any moving parts except keyboard — go with Macbook Air M1 and just run Ubuntu there. Would be still more performant than most of intel laptops in 2000$ range.

I have some concerns about longevity of many of the current M1 machines. Yes, they have no moving parts other than keyboards (and fans in some models) which would be covered by AppleCare+ [1] so it would seem that you could keep on going a long time.

However, one of the non-moving parts does wear out: the SSD. It is not clear to me from the AppleCare+ TOS if an SSD failing due to reaching its write limits would be covered. The TOS says it does not cover wear and tear, but I'm not sure if SSD wear falls under that or not.

I like to keep computers a long time. I kept my 2008 Mac Pro until 2017, and only switched then because something I needed required the latest MacOS and 2017 was the year when the 2008 Mac Pro stopped getting the new major MacOS releases. I'm now only considering replacing the 2017 iMac i got then because the display has developed a vertical line of bad pixels. If not for that I'd be staying on it for another few years at least.

The SSD in my iMac is still around 98% after over 4 years and so seems like wear won't be a problem, and it is replaceable with some difficulty (OWC calls it an "advanced" repair and suggests having a pro do it).

But I've got 64 GB in the iMac. I don't think I've ever seen it touch the SSD for swap/paging [2]. I'm worried that on many of the M1 Macs that would not be the case. All of them except the Studio and the 14/16" MacBook Pros top out at 16 MB, and I've noticed on my iMac that I'm usually using between 16 GB and 28 GB.

I've watched quite a few reviews on YouTube of people testing the M1 machines under heavy load in quite a few different configurations, and one thing that has stood out is that there is surprising little performance difference in a lot of these tests between maxed out memory and minimal memory configurations. These tests do show significant swap usage on the low memory machines.

Similar thing in a lot of the comments on HN from developers using M1. Great performance with a lot less memory than I expect a machine used for heavy development to need.

I think what is going on is that there is so much bandwidth to internal SSDs now that on recent machines if you are hitting swap for task switching the I/O is so fast that it won't noticeably limit performance. It would only be when you are dealing with data structures big enough that you need to hit swap during random data structure access in a single task that you'd start really noticing a slowdown.

My concern then is that with the M1 Macs that have 16 GB or less RAM they may be making enough use of swap that they won't work out when it comes to longevity. Most people's needs grow over time as software becomes ever more bloated, so I'm worried that even if they aren't touching swap much now they will be in 3 or 4 years.

[1] In case anyone else missed this a year or so ago like I did, Apple changed the way AppleCare works. It used to be a one time purchase that extended your warranty to 3 years and then ended. They changed it so that you can buy it as an annual subscription that you can keep renewing indefinitely.

[2] Hah! In the middle of typing this post, my swap usage went to 99.0 MB. Kind of weird. I didn't manage to get any swap usage when I purposefully tried doing several large things trying to see how much memory I actually needed, and now I'm just sitting here with everything idle except the browser and I get swap.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#256

This is probably an unpopular view, but I kind of use laptops as if they were terminals. If you want to spend $2k, I'd invest $1600 of that in a great desktop machine, and spend the other $400 on a cheap chromebook and tablets / keyboards / gizmos to log into it remotely.

I carry a Dell XPS1500(64GB, 2TB, 4K) that is probably 3 pounds to use at work and at home with external monitors, it's better comparing two one desktop + one low-end laptop for me.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#257

** "I don't want to use a Mac" ** "I've had these problems with Mac" Reasonable response: Cool, use what works for you. EDIT> Here are some suggestions that match your constraints. Annoying response 1: You should reconsider because Mac works great for me. Annoying response 2: Your problems aren't real problems. Annoying response 3: Let's live debug your problems in this thread to see if they're real problems. Guys. I…

I mean, if the hardware runs Linux well, it's not that ridiculous to recommend it. Forget the Apple software part.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#258

** "I don't want to use a Mac" ** "I've had these problems with Mac" Reasonable response: Cool, use what works for you. EDIT> Here are some suggestions that match your constraints. Annoying response 1: You should reconsider because Mac works great for me. Annoying response 2: Your problems aren't real problems. Annoying response 3: Let's live debug your problems in this thread to see if they're real problems. Guys. I…

Dude, operating system is one of the most fundamental things to consider when getting a dev machine. MacOS is literally useless for me, because I depend on the Linux kernel.

You can still install Linux on a mac (which is what I did) and still get a powerful and beautiful machine, if you so desire.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#259
post #18

The problem I run into with a lot of these is that their screens aren’t great. 1080p@60Hz and usually pretty terrible brightness makes them a bad fit for me as a travel companion, or even just working from my garden. It’s also annoying that some keep insisting on a barrel connector for charging instead of leveraging the USB-C port. As much as I appreciate the privacy and freedom enhancing aspects of some of these dev…

Dell XPSes are good too Unless you plan to put them into a bag or backpack suspended: With regards to transporting your laptop in a bag or backpack, safety should be your primary concern. You should always turn the laptop OFF [...] Under no circumstances should you leave a laptop powered on and in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag, backpack, or in an overhead bin. The laptop will overheat as a res…

This is true of any laptop. I've cooked a 2012 macbook pro in a backpack because suspend didn't work right.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#260
For what it's worth, I have been using cheap-o refurbished HP Elitebooks (the 830) off of eBay running Fedora and they are great. I have been running my old one for years and years and the new one for about a year or so.

Battery life erodes over time but a new battery will fix it right up.

It depends what kind of development you're doing, of course. I am not sure what intensive computer usage means to you, but I would say I use it intensively! But I am not doing anything that requires a GPU nor am I re-compiling kernels every day. But for my humble needs I've found it's a cost-effective solution that holds up quite well.

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