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Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

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Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#251

Post by Aerroon »

uniqueuid wrote: post #87
kmeisthax wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because every other computer manufacturer realized they can save on the BOM cost by shoving the whole computer under plastic gingerbread. That weight distribution? It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly. Flickering redraws? We don't make the OS, we just sell Microsoft's. Occasionally you do see PC OEMs that try for taste in the Windows ecosystem. Sony did that with their VAIO laptops, with the somew…

All true, but why is the culture and aesthetic of computers inherently trashy? Look at all the fields where superior quality is a completely natural criterion (whether it exists may be another question): Watches, cars, pens, paper notebooks, furniture, fashion, jewellery, architecture, bikes, coffee machines ... What's more - if you look at the visual representations of computers - i.e. marketing material, art, illus…

Because computers are supposed to be practical first. We're still making significant enough improvements in the performance of them that they outweigh things such as aesthetics. The things you mentioned have negligible improvements year after year and the way they differentiate between each other is the looks.

This is also why good computers are affordable by almost everybody, but things like good bicycles, furniture, watches, coffee machines etc are not.

You can buy a decent computer for the same money as one chair.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#252

Post by alienthrowaway »

kmeisthax wrote: post #72
uniqueuid wrote: post #24

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

Because every other computer manufacturer realized they can save on the BOM cost by shoving the whole computer under plastic gingerbread. That weight distribution? It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly. Flickering redraws? We don't make the OS, we just sell Microsoft's. Occasionally you do see PC OEMs that try for taste in the Windows ecosystem. Sony did that with their VAIO laptops, with the somew…

> It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly.

No such thing as a "correct" design: it's all about market positioning and design trade-offs. I'm typing this on a sub-$300 laptop, it's made of plastic, it bends and flexes, but it is very light, and has a 1980x1024 display, a 9-hour battery, and again - it bears repeating - cost less than $300 brand new. These factors may not be important to you, but they were to me as I wanted something I could bike with, and wouldn't be too stressed if it broke in a fall[1]. I also have a MacBook, but it's heavy and expensive to repair.

1. It is also something I would have been my dream machine as a poor student in a place with unreliable electric service, yet still attainable, unlike the other "well-made" laptops that have a premium on aesthetics & build-quality.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#253

Post by kimixa »

uniqueuid wrote: post #87
kmeisthax wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because every other computer manufacturer realized they can save on the BOM cost by shoving the whole computer under plastic gingerbread. That weight distribution? It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly. Flickering redraws? We don't make the OS, we just sell Microsoft's. Occasionally you do see PC OEMs that try for taste in the Windows ecosystem. Sony did that with their VAIO laptops, with the somew…

All true, but why is the culture and aesthetic of computers inherently trashy? Look at all the fields where superior quality is a completely natural criterion (whether it exists may be another question): Watches, cars, pens, paper notebooks, furniture, fashion, jewellery, architecture, bikes, coffee machines ... What's more - if you look at the visual representations of computers - i.e. marketing material, art, illus…

Also the treadmill of computer progress means that keeping devices for multiple years has significant costs in performance compared to replacing it regularly.

A good watch can be passed down through generations. A computer passed on from my father would likely just be a storage and disposal cost instead of any real use.

Outside of specialist enthusiasts and collectors, I suppose. But for every working Apple 1 there's thousands of c64s that no longer function quite right.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#254

Post by pathartl »

neoromantique wrote: post #240
pathartl wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just replace the motherboard" and lose all of your data on it. Yes, backups are important, but there's a loss of time when you have to restore from backup or provision a new machine/motherboard with your environment. Not to mention that "just replace the motherboard" can often mean costing half, if not more, the original price of the machine. What happens if my SSD wears out? I just have to replace the entire logic…

I get what you're saying, but you really should consider any portable hw(laptops/phones) as disposable. Or better yet -- assume that malicious actor cat get access to your device and configure it accordingly.

No, we really shouldn't. Enterprise generally does hardware refreshes every 3 years. The average consumer can take one of those machines and extend at least another 2 years out of it. Being able to securely wipe or remove storage modules out of the machines for repurposing should be a pretty easy target to hit.

Additionally, some industries like K12 or non-profits a lot of times have to try to squeeze as much life out of their systems as possible. These organizations would benefit insanely from better repairability and cheaper access to parts.

Of course motherboards are a bit harder to repair and usually means replacing the whole board, but it doesn't have to if we had a skilled workforce that could easily refurbish boards. Apple has taken great measures to make sure this never happens.

There's also the argument to be made for historic preservation. The retro computer community has been doing nothing but growing and I can already see in 20+ years time that these machines will be absolutely unusable without some sort of software hack. Even then, your onboard storage is shot and you have to boot externally.

You can make repairable, cost effective, well built, and top of the line machines. Apple just doesn't do it.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#256

Post by neoromantique »

pathartl wrote: post #254
neoromantique wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but you really should consider any portable hw(laptops/phones) as disposable. Or better yet -- assume that malicious actor cat get access to your device and configure it accordingly.

No, we really shouldn't. Enterprise generally does hardware refreshes every 3 years. The average consumer can take one of those machines and extend at least another 2 years out of it. Being able to securely wipe or remove storage modules out of the machines for repurposing should be a pretty easy target to hit. Additionally, some industries like K12 or non-profits a lot of times have to try to squeeze as much life ou…

I agree with you and I'm all in for right to repair, but I was referring to the specific point mentioned above -- "restoring from backup is a hassle".

If it is a hassle then you're doing it wrong and you'll be in all sorts of trouble if you lose your laptop / it gets stolen.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#257

Post by culopatin »

smackeyacky wrote: post #207
goosedragons wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy metal PCs. There's loads of them. Microsoft themselves even make them. Pretty sure every big OEM has at least one laptop with a solid metal chassis at this point. I prefer the plastic of my Thinkpad, it doesn't feel creaky, there's no "sticky-feeling texture". It doesn't boil on my lap the way metal MacBooks and PowerBooks have. It feels solid while also not denting from knocking it into a doorway by acci…

Pay more for the corporate class laptops from HP or Dell i.e Elitebook Supported longer, better materials, better keyboards. I'd buy a second hand elitebook over a new acer or whatever any day.

Yep, I use and deploy them at work. The only problem I have with them is the screen. That privacy filter could be a godsend for someone on an airplane, but for every day use at home or office, it really kills the image quality

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#258

Post by culopatin »

gwn7 wrote: post #62

It is extremely funny that people are able to come to conclusions like this from just 2 data points. "Macbooks seem to be the only viable option these days", because I had bad experiences with two non-Macbook computers. To be fair; I don't think that the author came to that conclusion only from those 2 anecdotes. But still, that is the way the argument is presented. And it really looks absurd.

And then you get super long threads of people just sharing their opinion like it supports something. “I like Linux/Mac/Windows better”. “I don’t like my Dell”, “My Mac broke/never had an issue”. Ok what do I do with this info? Nothing, useless talk really, but we all love these threads and they always get super long

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#259

Post by danamit »

uniqueuid wrote: post #24

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

That's personal taste, if Apple cares can they care to have a real keyboard, a bit of ports, and a camera shutter?

I am super filtered by the Mac keyboard and I don't think it is intended for professional use at all.

Also "it just werks" is not true at all, Macs have a super bad reparability. If you love Macs fine, but they are not that savoir of laptops as you claim, its a brand with its own loyal fans just like there is Thinkpads with loyal fans and people who say WHY NO ONE MAKE GOOD MUSIC TODAY EXCEPT TAYLOR SWIFT?????

ONLY GOOD PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE IS C# TODAY WTF???

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#260

Post by ajolly »

totalZero wrote: post #117
kmeisthax wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because every other computer manufacturer realized they can save on the BOM cost by shoving the whole computer under plastic gingerbread. That weight distribution? It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly. Flickering redraws? We don't make the OS, we just sell Microsoft's. Occasionally you do see PC OEMs that try for taste in the Windows ecosystem. Sony did that with their VAIO laptops, with the somew…

Vaio laptop build quality is on the plasticky end of the spectrum. They're pretty but build quality leaves much to be desired. I've never viewed their pricing as particularly inflated. Have owned a few.

Depends on the Vaio. The old Z series: z13, z21 etc were pinnacles of engineering. Fast as hell and light.
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