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Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

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Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#251

Post by kamaal »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #116
kanakiyajay wrote: post #96

There is good evidence in terms of attrition numbers published by major tech companies --- it has gone as high as 22%!! India is also experiencing a major demand for software developers It's due to venture funds, remote work & high demand ... Cash is cheap. US, Europe & Japan have unleashed >$9 trillion since the pandemic in stimulus checks & buying of bonds in the market. Global venture funding hit a record high of…

The funny thing is that the 2-3 month notice period was created so that people don't quit. But now it has turned against companies!

It was always like that, people used to continue interviewing even after notice period. It was always known to be a counter productive thing for companies. HR departments work differently so they still ain't got the news yet.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#252

Post by kamaal »

kanakiyajay wrote: post #96

There is good evidence in terms of attrition numbers published by major tech companies --- it has gone as high as 22%!! India is also experiencing a major demand for software developers It's due to venture funds, remote work & high demand ... Cash is cheap. US, Europe & Japan have unleashed >$9 trillion since the pandemic in stimulus checks & buying of bonds in the market. Global venture funding hit a record high of…

Inflation in India is close to 15%(every thing added). If you are a rich person sitting on a fortune you have to invest and spend it. If you are worth 3 digit crores, you are losing 2 digit crores an year, if you are 4 digit crores you are losing 3 digit crores an year.

What this means is you need to keep investing money to even stay afloat, hence the VC investment madness.

India has seen this trends in the past too. And it doesn't end well. When businesses don't make profits the employees suffer. Loans are defaulted, homes are lost and careers are set back by decades. I call this job tourism.

I've been there and been through this several times. In the early 90s I remember it was considered a windfall period for managerial talent in India. When ABCL(Amitabh Bachchan Corporation Limited) collapsed it unleashed hell on people. Dot com burst, 2008 crash. It all starts with crazy salaries and ends in tears. In 2008 I personally remember filtering out resumes of people whom we called 'job hoppers'. Have a frequent jump trial on your resume? Congrats a lay off now means you will be job less for 2+ years. Even when you do get a job after that time, it's not like they'll be offering 500% hike on the market standards. If you don't show the jumps on the resume first question we'd ask is 'Can you explain the gap in your resume'.

Where do you think the exhaustive background checks come from?

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#253

Post by kylixz »

I quit in September this year as a director of engineering after working at the same place for 13 years. It has been a a learning experience. I had worked remotely on and off with the company throughout my tenure and the pay and bonuses were good enough for me. Loved the people that I supported, the variety work I did, etc... minus a few changes at my leadership level.

I mostly quit because I had a baby in 2020. My CEO told me about 6 months ago I was "too close to my son" in one of my 1-1's I think largely because I wore him on a few zoom calls to give my wife a break right after birth. I let that fester for awhile... stuck in endless brain loops analyzing my life and where I spent my time. A week after watching my 1 year old enjoy a cupcake with a smile for his birthday -- I quit. I miss many of the great people... but life is too short. It was the time put into something vs the time put into relationships I care about the most that made me punch out.

I have no idea what's next... for now I just want to enjoy some time with my wife, kids, and family which financially I'm so thankful I am able to do. We only have time and health!

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#254

Post by thewhitetulip »

kamaal wrote: post #251
thewhitetulip wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that the 2-3 month notice period was created so that people don't quit. But now it has turned against companies!

It was always like that, people used to continue interviewing even after notice period. It was always known to be a counter productive thing for companies. HR departments work differently so they still ain't got the news yet.

Yes but in the usual market openings are low and budget is low. Now a days loads of ppl quit so openings are high and companies have to give better salary.

That tilts the scale in our favour.

So now ppl quit and then get multiple offers otherwise salary doesn't increase. That's the only way to get a raise.

It should be a crime, a literal crime to ask for current salary.

If I am let's say 5yr experience you give me appropriate salary as per your bands. Why is it a rule to give only 30% based on your current salary?

And then the same HRs cry on Linkedin about how people are not joining!

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#255

Post by onion2k »

missedthecue wrote: post #208
onion2k wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your boss could afford to pay you 60% more but decided not to until he was effectively forced to, and you figure that's who you want to work for? Getting a very significant raise to stay in the same role is a strong signal that the company doesn't value its people and will pay you as little as possible in the future. I'd bet any money that your next 2 or 3 reviews will come with no further raises because "you just…

No company is going to pay everyone the highest amount they possibly can. Is that how you buy groceries?

No company is going to pay everyone the highest amount they possibly can.

Letting someone's salary get to a point where they need a 60% raise to get back to a market competitive salary is terrible people management.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#256

Post by Farbklex »

patatino wrote: post #184
Farbklex wrote: post #107

I choose my job based on the commute time. One month after starting, covid hit and I worked remote only. Then I heared from freelancer friends that now almost all their projects became remote only as well. I quit my job a few months ago and work as a freelancer from home now.

How do you find clients?

I created a profile on a freelancer portal. I got 3 calls and a LinkedIn message from recruiters the same day.

After 3 weeks, I was able to sign a project contract.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#257

Post by kamaal »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #254
kamaal wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was always like that, people used to continue interviewing even after notice period. It was always known to be a counter productive thing for companies. HR departments work differently so they still ain't got the news yet.

Yes but in the usual market openings are low and budget is low. Now a days loads of ppl quit so openings are high and companies have to give better salary. That tilts the scale in our favour. So now ppl quit and then get multiple offers otherwise salary doesn't increase. That's the only way to get a raise. It should be a crime, a literal crime to ask for current salary. If I am let's say 5yr experience you give me ap…

>>Now a days loads of ppl quit so openings are high and companies have to give better salary.

Has always been that way. The easiest way to replace people is to hire freshers who are looking for a break. That way they don't have to pay high salaries. This is why you see every year there is an ever increasing demand for freshers.

If you are experienced you need to be enough responsibilities free to attempt crazy job hopping lifestyle. That is ok for salaries sake, but no one will offer you loans, and you will miss out on the only investment avenue for (upper) middle class, that is real estate investments. So you can't forever play this game either.

Most people who understand how the long term game works, don't hop often. They know there is nothing like ever increasing 300% hike yoy on hopping jobs. On the other hand lack of stability means, you can't work on building assets, or making a rent income stream for the winter days of post-40s. And crazy work hours have a tax on your health. Eventually you end up losing your salary money to inflation, with no retirement stash and with diseases.

The only people hopping are really people who are easy to staff in body shops.

>>Why is it a rule to give only 30% based on your current salary?

Contrary to whatever you believe nobody has the demand to offer 300% raises to every one person. And I will drop a another cold fact on you. Most people who leave can be easily replaced by freshers with minimal training for 1/4th cost. This is not because companies are evil or something. But the facts here are bulk of the software industry doesn't need rockstars. There are not enough rockstar projects, to need rockstar developers.

And yeah most start ups who offer those crore rupees salaries never pay up. Several of them shutdown, most people lose jobs before IPO. Even if they have jobs, they'll be made to work so hard they'll quit. Sometime lots of additional clauses exist in salaries eg: Variable pay, conditional vesting etc which make that offer letter basically a scammy document.

People pay just 30% because they don't want to deal with any of this.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#258

Post by nicbou »

aetherspawn wrote: post #166
kaycebasques wrote: post #71

In June 2021 I left Google after 6 years. I outlined my motivations here [1]. Long story short it's a conscious bet that time and energy are scarcer commodities for me than money. I'm not sure I'll last a full year but I think I have a few months left in me. [1] https://kayce.basqu.es/sabbatical/prologue

From your post: > As luck would have it, global healthcare plans seem reasonably priced. My partner and I got covered under Aetna's MHP Exclusive plan (their most comprehensive package) for under $300 a month total (not $300 per person). As an Australian, this figure seems ridiculous, even if it were in $AUD! To give you an idea, I pay around $45 AUD/mo (but I've never had to use it because free healthcare).

In my experience [1], these global insurances can either have limited coverage amounts, limited coverage duration, or will recalculate your premium every year as if you just joined. Regular health insurance would put you in a bucket and use the bucket's general risk to price everyone's insurance, leading to steadier premiums. They often offer little to no coverage in the US and Canada.

These are great for getting temporary coverage while you wait for a residence permit, but there are few use cases for them outside of that. In Germany, I actively try to steer people away from them.

[1] I wrote this: https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/german-health-insurance

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#259

Post by patatino »

Farbklex wrote: post #256
patatino wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you find clients?

I created a profile on a freelancer portal. I got 3 calls and a LinkedIn message from recruiters the same day. After 3 weeks, I was able to sign a project contract.

Interesting, do you mind sharing which freelancer portal? Was is a local one in your country?

Re: Ask HN: Is the Great Resignation in tech real? If so, why?

#260

Post by the_jeremy »

onion2k wrote: post #133
the_jeremy wrote: post #45

anecdote: This year, I was on a team of 2 and my coworker left for Google for a little under $300k. I told my boss I was going to quit to do interview prep and said I was making onsites for companies offering $200k, and they offered me $200k to stay. That was a 90% raise for my teammate who left and a 60% raise for me.

So your boss could afford to pay you 60% more but decided not to until he was effectively forced to, and you figure that's who you want to work for? Getting a very significant raise to stay in the same role is a strong signal that the company doesn't value its people and will pay you as little as possible in the future. I'd bet any money that your next 2 or 3 reviews will come with no further raises because "you just…

You are right in the sense that my company was underpaying relative to the market. The reasons I decided to stay were:

1. I had been there 2. I get to be team lead (of a team of 2, yeah), which is not something I would get to do anywhere else, given my 4 YOE.

3. I like my team and WFH and WLB and taking a chance on a new company when the comp would be the same sounded risky.

4. I didn't actually have any offers. I had made it to 3 on-sites and had a few more in the pipeline, but most were for lower compensation than my counter-offer. I went ahead and did the on-site that was for more comp afterward (I told my boss I was doing this), but I didn't get the offer there either, so I didn't really have another option to choose instead.

5. 200k is top-of-band for non-tier-1 companies for my area / YOE, and more than half of the tier 1 companies in my area were over an hour commute.

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