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Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#251
post #240
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone has all the symptoms. For example, I don't really display hyperactivity nor mood swings, nor do I have trouble dealing with most kinds of stress. > - Short attention span? Well, depends on the situation. In gaming, I can stay focused all day long. I can read a book for hours. No problem staying focused doing physical activities (sport). Staying focused on coding is really difficult and I constantly zone…

Maybe I should I give it a go. I really don't want to. But this has been frustrating for a long time. Thanks for the effort!

Have a look, maybe it helps.

The good side about the common ADHD medications (various stimulants) is that they mostly help within half an hour, if they help at all.

So apart from the hassle of getting a diagnosis and prescription, at least you won't have to endure months of side effects before you know whether you can get any better.

(I'm contrasting that with eg anti-depressants here.)

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is lazy at playing video games or eating a favorite food. I cannot disagree more. You can be lazy about something that brings enjoyment. Laziness is stagnation without regard for enjoyment or perceptions. In other words it is the opposite of ambition or progression. For example you can enjoy playing video games and yet become lazy about it through a lack of effort in that a decline of related goals does not…

> If you are afraid to associate a decision with your reputation then somebody will make the decision for you. It is better to make a wrong decision early than to put that decision off to a future time. A wrong decision in the short term results in learning that can result in corrective decisions that would otherwise be absent. While I agree with everything else you said, I can't disagree with this more. If someone e…

> If someone else is more qualified or better able to make a more informed decision than you are, then let them!

That is called delegation of responsibility. If you are not qualified to make a certain professional decision or if such a decision exceeds your delegated responsibility then you need to bring somebody else in, possibly a supervisor. That consideration is itself a decision and it should not be delayed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegation

> Furthermore, how do you know that a wrong decision early is better than putting a decision off until a future time?

Exactly. You have no idea until you can determine the result. If you fail early and have the awareness to recognize that failure you are in a far stronger position for all forthcoming decisions. If you wait to make that decision all the time between now then remains an unknown and you also aren't completing any resulting actions. So not only does risk increase but your productivity proportionally decreases.

It makes sense to wait on a decision only when that decision is both critical and costly and even then the only advantage on waiting is to perform further investigation. There is no advantage in hesitation only for the sake of hesitation, because then you are allowing external factors to influence the conditions away from what you currently know.

> The hard part about making decisions often isn't just the decision itself, but also in understanding the risks and trade-offs of making a potentially wrong decision now

This isn't something that software developers are well equipped for. Other industries have specific processes and criteria for evaluating risk in a uniform and standard way as well as the processes to apply the proper controls. These are basic trade practices that are often affirmed through education and licensing with bodies of enforcement. Software, on the other hand, does not have a commonly recognized ethics enforcement/evaluation body to define these trade practices. In practice most of this is outsourced to security professionals, for example people holding one of the various ISC2 certifications: https://www.isc2.org/ethics/

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#253
Laziness isn't always "lazy". It can be fear of failure or fear of wasting your time. Learn to value small successes rather like completing a chapter or incremental increases in knowledge rather than waiting for the euphoria of "I completed the thing!" That has probably helped me more than anything and prevented a lot of frustration when learning/doing something new. Also, say "I'll work on it only a half hour and then stop" sometimes you'll find you are enjoying or at least appreciating what you're doing and keep coming a bit (or a lot) longer.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#254

"Lazy" is just another way of saying that you're not doing something somebody else thinks you should be doing. Nobody is lazy at playing video games or eating a favorite food. If you like doing it, you do it. You can't be lazy. You can only be lazy in some kind of context where you or others judge you and find you wanting. So two pieces of advice. First, stop judging so much. Do what you love doing and don't feel the…

> Nobody is lazy at playing video games or eating a favorite food. I cannot disagree more. You can be lazy about something that brings enjoyment. Laziness is stagnation without regard for enjoyment or perceptions. In other words it is the opposite of ambition or progression. For example you can enjoy playing video games and yet become lazy about it through a lack of effort in that a decline of related goals does not…

"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - Jeff Bridges in the Big Lebowski

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#255
post #251
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I should I give it a go. I really don't want to. But this has been frustrating for a long time. Thanks for the effort!

Have a look, maybe it helps. The good side about the common ADHD medications (various stimulants) is that they mostly help within half an hour, if they help at all. So apart from the hassle of getting a diagnosis and prescription, at least you won't have to endure months of side effects before you know whether you can get any better. (I'm contrasting that with eg anti-depressants here.)

That sounds promising. On a side note, today I've tried Nicotin for the first time. I've heard that it helps people with ADHD and as this has been on my mind for a couple of months by now, I figured that this might be an easy way to check myself. Your post was the last push and I have a shop right next to my door.

Well, it seemed to work. Maybe placebo, but I'd say that I had high concentration burst in 30-45 minutes intervals (after inhaling). I kind of forgot that I've taken it a couple of minutes in, because I was so focused on the code. I heard that Nicotin works as neuroenhancer in general, so nothing is proven. But no matter why, it seemed to help.

I really don't want to get addicted to Nicotin, so I'll see how I can find a doctor to verify/falsify this.

Thanks again!

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is lazy at playing video games or eating a favorite food. I cannot disagree more. You can be lazy about something that brings enjoyment. Laziness is stagnation without regard for enjoyment or perceptions. In other words it is the opposite of ambition or progression. For example you can enjoy playing video games and yet become lazy about it through a lack of effort in that a decline of related goals does not…

I think you've outlined an excellent framework/technique to self improvement -- not dissimilar to the Carol Dweck's 'Growth Mindset'. However, I think it's very likely GP has a much more pernicious problem. That is, he is afraid to make mistakes. The sentence that highlights this for me is -- "I have realized that I easily give up when I face a hard problem." If you're afraid of making mistakes, you won't be willing…

This sounds like uncertainty avoidance. Normally that term is applied to social groups opposed to individuals, but I am going to use it here because it describes the psychology behind the kind of fear you speak to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_avoidance

I suspect for some persons perfectionism is a problem, but the frequency with which mental laziness occurs and the rarity with which perfectionism occurs suggests there are different or multiple motivating factors. Perhaps a common answer is that many people are unknowingly willing to sacrifice flexibility and freedom for familiarity and predictability. This is even evidenced by how people write software.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#257

"Lazy" is just another way of saying that you're not doing something somebody else thinks you should be doing. Nobody is lazy at playing video games or eating a favorite food. If you like doing it, you do it. You can't be lazy. You can only be lazy in some kind of context where you or others judge you and find you wanting. So two pieces of advice. First, stop judging so much. Do what you love doing and don't feel the…

Thank you so much for sharing this. A lot of people will knee-jerk react with "push, push, you're worthless, push" and I have deep appreciation for this wiser attitude.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#258
post #42

I had a similar problem where the the bigger / the more complex the task in front of me was, the more my brain resisted to getting started and the more i procrasitnated. I came up with a fundamentally "agile" solution: break the problems down into smaller tasks until the first task is too small to offer resistance. E.g. rather than "write architecture specification", start with "outline the heads for architecture spe…

I had a similar issue and the fix for me was the system "Getting Things Done". The biggest paradigm change from it was, "You can't work on projects. You can only work on actions related to projects."

Came to this thread to say: The GTD methodology talks specifically about breaking tasks down, and in fact is the first place I even came across the idea of breaking things down as a way to overcome procrastination.

Really great stuff

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are afraid to associate a decision with your reputation then somebody will make the decision for you. It is better to make a wrong decision early than to put that decision off to a future time. A wrong decision in the short term results in learning that can result in corrective decisions that would otherwise be absent. While I agree with everything else you said, I can't disagree with this more. If someone e…

> If someone else is more qualified or better able to make a more informed decision than you are, then let them! That is called delegation of responsibility. If you are not qualified to make a certain professional decision or if such a decision exceeds your delegated responsibility then you need to bring somebody else in, possibly a supervisor. That consideration is itself a decision and it should not be delayed. htt…

> That is called delegation of responsibility. If you are not qualified to make a certain professional decision or if such a decision exceeds your delegated responsibility then you need to bring somebody else in, possibly a supervisor.

Delegation more often happens toward subordinates than supervisors, but I don't see how that's relevant. My response here was to your statement that, "If you are afraid to associate a decision with your reputation then somebody will make the decision for you." I was pointing out that someone else making the decision for you isn't necessarily a bad thing as you seemed to be implying.

> That consideration is itself a decision and it should not be delayed.

You seem to be arguing here just for the sake of arguing, even if it means arguing against your original point. By the same logic you're using here, the decision to procrastinate can itself also be a decision, which is actually the entire point of my post.

> Exactly. You have no idea until you can determine the result. If you fail early and have the awareness to recognize that failure you are in a far stronger position for all forthcoming decisions. If you wait to make that decision all the time between now then remains an unknown and you also aren't completing any resulting actions. So not only does risk increase but your productivity proportionally decreases.

Your reasoning seems to rely on the premise that you can only learn by making a decision, which isn't true at all. You can also learn by research, which you have more time to do by delaying a decision. Even without research, there are many things you can learn just by allowing more time to pass and more events to unfold without any deliberate action on your part.

An example of this could be something like submitting an application that's ready today for an RFQ from a large potential customer that isn't due for another month. Then, 2 weeks from now you find out from an acquaintance who used to work for that customer that they always valued some other piece of information being included in the RFQ submissions they review. I can't tell you how many times I've run into similar situations, and procrastinating improved the quality of the final result.

Similarly, most of the time, you'll only ever have more information available to make decisions the longer you wait, not less.

> It makes sense to wait on a decision only when that decision is both critical and costly and even then the only advantage on waiting is to perform further investigation. There is no advantage in hesitation only for the sake of hesitation, because then you are allowing external factors to influence the conditions away from what you currently know.

You're arbitrarily asserting here that external factors can only influence the conditions away from what you currently know. External factors can also influence conditions toward what you currently know. Furthermore, the longer you wait, the more you'll know, which means the more informed your decisions will be.

> This isn't something that software developers are well equipped for. Other industries have specific processes and criteria for evaluating risk in a uniform and standard way as well as the processes to apply the proper controls. These are basic trade practices that are often affirmed through education and licensing with bodies of enforcement. Software, on the other hand, does not have a commonly recognized ethics enforcement/evaluation body to define these trade practices. In practice most of this is outsourced to security professionals, for example people holding one of the various ISC2 certifications: https://www.isc2.org/ethics/

I have know idea what point you're trying to make here or how it's at all relevant.

At the end of the day, I've had enough good decisions come as a result of waiting to make them when I can to know that what you're prescribing isn't a universal truth, which was the point I was trying to make clear.

I've also had plenty decisions turn out to be the wrong decisions, which I would have known if I'd waited another day or two to make them, further reinforcing that quick decisions aren't always better than delayed decisions. Again, the hard part is figuring out when it's better to make a quick decision and when it isn't.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone else is more qualified or better able to make a more informed decision than you are, then let them! That is called delegation of responsibility. If you are not qualified to make a certain professional decision or if such a decision exceeds your delegated responsibility then you need to bring somebody else in, possibly a supervisor. That consideration is itself a decision and it should not be delayed. htt…

> That is called delegation of responsibility. If you are not qualified to make a certain professional decision or if such a decision exceeds your delegated responsibility then you need to bring somebody else in, possibly a supervisor. Delegation more often happens toward subordinates than supervisors, but I don't see how that's relevant. My response here was to your statement that, "If you are afraid to associate a…

> Delegation more often happens toward subordinates than supervisors

When a subordinate lacks sufficient delegated responsibility they need to call in a supervisor. Delegation flows downward from an authority. When the delegated responsibility is exceeded the authority needs to be involved.

> Similarly, most of the time, you'll only ever have more information available to make decisions the longer you wait, not less.

In my experience that is a commonly believed blanket assumption that rarely occurs in practice. Risks tend to increase over time in the absence of controls enforcement.

> Your reasoning seems to rely on the premise that you can only learn by making a decision, which isn't true at all.

There is a lot of psychology on this. Yes, you can learn some things from books, but the ability to apply what you learn almost entirely takes practice and repetition. There is a world of difference between reading a right answer from a reference and formulating that right answer as a spontaneously novelty from experience. I am not discounting the value of education, but you would never hire a medical doctor who has never touched a scalpel or a trial lawyer who has never performed at trial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_of_learning

> Furthermore, the longer you wait, the more you'll know, which means the more informed your decisions will be.

This is a logical fallacy called reaffirming the consequent. You cannot know if a decision will be more well informed by waiting unless you have waited and reflected upon that delayed decision. This is a reckless line of thinking since a given risk profile with change during that period of waiting regardless of whether the assertion holds true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

> I have know idea what point you're trying to make here

Assuming risks are an unchanging constant and that the only thing that changes is the information you receive and also assuming there is never cost associated with a delay then yes it would make sense to procrastinate on many decisions, as much as possible, in the hope you will become supremely well informed, but this is extremely unrealistic.

> isn't a universal truth

Its a matter of making better decisions and reducing risk over time. Its not about universal truths. That's what religion is for.

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