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Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

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Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#251

Post by bachmeier »

fierarul wrote: post #64

The common rule around here is to charge more. This is also promoted a lot by patio11 on HN and on Twitter. I would counter this with the fact that sometimes it could backfire. Just like in a job negotiation, a contract negotiation might end up with no contract at all. So while it's nice to hear about this, applying it in practice generally works for new customers while the original/current customers are paying your…

> I would counter this with the fact that sometimes it could backfire.

Well yeah, especially when you consider that the people writing those things have no way to know if you should charge more or not. It's actually pretty silly to respond to someone on HN and pretend you know that they should charge more. This is one of those situations where free advice is worth what you pay for it.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#252

Post by m0zg »

taylortrusty wrote: post #231
m0zg wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter - they work anyway. Nobody in accounts payable is going to get into the details of whether things are enforceable or not. They'll just pay your invoice instead.

This is not a universal truth. Discount incentives work much better. The clients who pay late will pay their invoices without the late fees anyway, in my experience. Now you’re tracking down payment for your work and the fees.

>> This is not a universal truth.

Nothing is.

>> Discount incentives work much better.

This is not a universal truth. See what I did there?

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#253

Post by oAlbe »

ghaff wrote: post #246
calabin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can second this piece of advice. When I first started our small consulting firm we didn't know how to scope explicitly enough and didn't charge enough even if the projects did stay within the scope of work. Don't be embarrassed of your rates. If they're flirting with but not plainly past what potential clients are willing to pay, you're in/around the right territory. Additionally, explicitly the definition of succe…

>When I first started our small consulting firm we didn't know how to scope explicitly enough and didn't charge enough even if the projects did stay within the scope of work. I used to have one client who was otherwise both a good customer and a nice person but he was terrible for constantly trying to incrementally increase scope. It was always an effort during the SOW process to really nail down exactly what the del…

What does "SOW" stand for in this context?

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#254

Post by detaro »

oAlbe wrote: post #253
ghaff wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When I first started our small consulting firm we didn't know how to scope explicitly enough and didn't charge enough even if the projects did stay within the scope of work. I used to have one client who was otherwise both a good customer and a nice person but he was terrible for constantly trying to incrementally increase scope. It was always an effort during the SOW process to really nail down exactly what the del…

What does "SOW" stand for in this context?

Statement of Work. Document that (ideally...) answers any question about "is doing this part of the contract, and who is responsible for it"

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#255

Post by TrackerFF »

When you're starting out, it can be easy to think that you'll just undercut your competition - if not for the experience gained.

No, here's the truth: When you undervalue your work, you'll attract the types of clients you don't want to work with. Scammers, misers and bargain hunters, etc.

You're also signaling that you're inexperienced - even though you may have a legit reason for charging less. I know consultants that work from home, and live in extremely cheap areas, or simply don't have many expenses, compared to consultants living in high COL areas.

So yeah, charge more. It's a good filter that you don't need to actively work on.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#256

Post by ScottFree »

fierarul wrote: post #64

The common rule around here is to charge more. This is also promoted a lot by patio11 on HN and on Twitter. I would counter this with the fact that sometimes it could backfire. Just like in a job negotiation, a contract negotiation might end up with no contract at all. So while it's nice to hear about this, applying it in practice generally works for new customers while the original/current customers are paying your…

"Charge more" is rhetoric[0]. If you look closely at those posts where patio11 advocates charging more, his reasoning for doing so is that most highly skilled developers undercharge for their services. His advice simply doesn't apply outside of that context.

[0]: If you don't know the difference between Rhetoric and Dialectic, I urge you to read Rhetoric by Aristotle. It will help explain some of the problems you may or may not have when talking with non-technical people.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#257

Post by ScottFree »

mehrdadn wrote: post #63
dfsegoat wrote: post #4

Embarrassing but honest: Pay your taxes on time (quarterly), assuming you are US based and on a 1099. Put that money away as soon as possible with ea. payment - just like an employer were withholding it. I managed my finances poorly, and it gets increasingly difficult to catch up. All good now but was the most expensive lesson I learned. Edit: seeing other replies here, I would meet with a tax/financial person from t…

How do you know how much money to put away until you're at then end of the tax period and know the total tax amount? Do you just estimate based on what you expect to earn?

> Do you just estimate based on what you expect to earn?

I echo the advice to get a good accountant, but "estimating" is what I've been doing for the past 5 years. I had an unexpectedly good year a few years ago and wound up underpaying on my quarterly taxes. The IRS and the State of NY both charged me a small fine and I just sucked it up and paid it. It's quite a racket they've got going on considering income tax was supposed to be a temporary measure to get us through WWI.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#258

Post by ScottFree »

danielovichdk wrote: post #217

The problem with consulting as a developer is that you can't charge as much as it costs to fix shit properly. Endless fucking story. Developers are mostly crap which treat their work as any other working man. You are there on the floor with these men, lowest in the hierachy, selling your time which you can't scale. You can't set a price on your time, it's something you will never get back, but if you absolutly must s…

> You are there on the floor with these men, lowest in the hierachy, selling your time which you can't scale.

What's the alternative? Being an employee is the same thing, but with better benefits and worse pay.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#259

Post by mehrdadn »

ScottFree wrote: post #257
mehrdadn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know how much money to put away until you're at then end of the tax period and know the total tax amount? Do you just estimate based on what you expect to earn?

> Do you just estimate based on what you expect to earn? I echo the advice to get a good accountant, but "estimating" is what I've been doing for the past 5 years. I had an unexpectedly good year a few years ago and wound up underpaying on my quarterly taxes. The IRS and the State of NY both charged me a small fine and I just sucked it up and paid it. It's quite a racket they've got going on considering income tax wa…

Interesting, do you have a link to more reading on this? The Wikipedia page on the 16th amendment doesn't seem to mention WWI as the reason.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#260

Post by ScottFree »

mentos wrote: post #170
unnouinceput wrote: post #163

Took a project as a whole price. As a result, the client asked for a lot of changes and paid only initial price, of course. What was supposed to be a short 2 days project blew into a full month. Learned my lesson, never worked on a fixed-price project again, only hourly. Now I welcome clients with gazillion of change requests and new features since I get paid by the hour. Also allows me to be at hand maintenance guy…

I outsource a lot of game dev related work. Usually I give the requirements, ask for an estimate from the contractor then I increase it 25% and ask if they’d do it at that fixed price. Does that seem fair? So far it seems to have worked out over a few tasks but curious what objections you or others reading might have to this?

> I outsource a lot of game dev related work.

Do you mind if I ask what kind of game dev related work?

My experience in the industry involved only hiring companies to do completed bits of work. This included programming, art, sound and level designs all in one. Basically, whole playable levels and/or mini-games from scratch. Not ideal jobs for a single programmer.

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