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Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

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Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#251

Post by giancarlostoro »

eight_ender wrote: post #38

Admitting I'm wrong or that I screwed up, and likewise praising others when they're correct or have ideas I agree with. You would not believe how much smoother everything at work is when you learn to recognize early the signs that you're holding on to a bad opinion, or that you're headed towards a fuckup, and just saying it out loud. The praising / agreeing thing is a bit more complex. I've noticed more recently that…

Sometimes you find yourself "arguing" only to realize you're talking about the same thing using different words. In other words... you both agree.

In other cases you're arguing different aspects of the problem and not realizing it.

I do agree with you though, admitting being wrong is better than being stubborn and wasting time and progress. It is something everyone up and down the chain of command should take to heart, you'll find yourself wasting less company resources, time and energy.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#252

Post by sametmax »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

I'll take a wild guess and say it's because your intellect is way more developed than your affect. Nothing wrong with that, but life is easier if you learn to use emotions instead of just living them.

It helps with making friends, negotiating, having sex, taking care of your health and overall improves the feeling of well-being. After all, if you perceive the world through mostly logic, it's easy to become cynical or be overwhelmed.

Meditation and psychedelics can help learning that if it's something you wish to invest in. Psychoanalysis as well. They all have different time frames, costs and shapes, so it's worth testing all of them. From several sources, given the huge difference in nature and quality of the providers.

It's a long process anyway, but 10 years in, I found it worth it for myself.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#253

Post by teekert »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #224
teekert wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you are talking about a "level difference" reveals a very 1 (or low) dimensional look on things. Some people may be blend and boring in one dimension i.e. they are not "deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge". But they may have learned to cope with great trauma that would wipe others away. Or they have musical skills or their profession may teach you something (or are…

Thank you. I should do something like that more often. In general, when I get outside of my bubble, I find a lot of very interesting people. I just get so intensely involved with the latest project.

I have some cool stories but only very few :) I'm also not so much the thrill seeker I appear to be in my post. It's just that when I travel for work I absolutely refuse to not see as much as possible of where I am, and that often brings you into contact with people (because I usually travel alone).

It always pays off do something that feels a bit radical. It also comes with some feelings of discomfort and insecurity. There was also a pretty f-ed up guy (abused or something) in the hostel, he was nice but mysterious in a way, but you sleep less well when he falls asleep on the cold floor next to his bed. Also driving 600 km alone sounds adventurous but I felt pretty lonely and had a sense of "why?" as well. As they say, life begins at the edge of your comfort zone ;)

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#254

Post by NeutralCrane »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

No offense, but I mean this, earnestly: get over yourself.

If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person.

You bemoan that you find almost everyone a "paper shell". And yet you are the one who has restricted your opinion of interesting people and topics with a PhD attached to it. You dismiss pursuits that have spanned all of human history like sports, family, food, religion as "pedestrian". That is indicative of an incredibly shallow and one-dimensional person. If you "peel back" the layers of people and frequently find nothing, that doesn't mean their is nothing there, it means you don't have the perception or ability to find it.

You say "all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge", and those with "reflection" or "relevant context", and yet you seem to have done little to no reflection, have limited relevant context outside your very limited definition of what is interesting, and have little to no self-awareness. You have constructed a fantasy where everyone else is inferior and uninteresting rather than accept the reality that you are likely a dull, uninteresting person who isn't nearly as intelligent as you believe.

I strongly recommend you take a step back, and seriously challenge your current beliefs about your relative intelligence and depth, and ask if the problem is not that others are dull, but rather you are a shallow, uninteresting person without the breadth of interests or life experience to relate to others. Doing so may open up avenues you have closed to yourself previously and help you relate to others more easily.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#255

Post by throwaway848483 »

teekert wrote: post #196
throwaway848483 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different levels though. There is complexity and tremendous ingenuity at any levels. It's just that the greater the level difference between two people, the less the interaction is fruitful for the both of them. Poverty might mean that a smart one may spend most of its brain power to make rent, instead of getting a PHD. Omnipresent marketing might have ingrained some ideas and dreams. People tend to stay in…

The fact that you are talking about a "level difference" reveals a very 1 (or low) dimensional look on things. Some people may be blend and boring in one dimension i.e. they are not "deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge". But they may have learned to cope with great trauma that would wipe others away. Or they have musical skills or their profession may teach you something (or are…

@teekert I was mainly putting myself on lookathrwaway level, to hopefully provide advice to a fellow Aspie.

The beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as one say. I perceive that there are plenty of different axes to look at things. But I refuse not to see the broken vase as a whole, no matter how beautifully you frame the shiny pieces.

Most people have been broken one way or an other. Some even celebrate it ; I find it quite sad and would rather avoid it, but who am I to know ?

I used to have things I didn't get at all like music, until the day it clicked. Even though I won't ever reach the level of masters in the art, I have enough to find it interesting. But more importantly that was an enlightening and humbling experiment that there are things you don't get until you do.

I enjoy the state of mind model, where to learn a new thing you try to search the state of mind where this thing comes naturally.

Once you get the right state of mind some things become easy , and some other things harder, but communication with a person in the same state of mind flows easily.

Often meeting different people and understanding how they deal with things can help acquire a new state of mind.

>How would you feel being judged as several levels below me?

As an aspie that as been judged stupider than I am most of my life, I have grown past it.

There are usually interesting experiences I can pick with anyone, although the ratio effort/reward depends a lot on our relative paths. I get that life sometimes put you in shitty situations and I don't judge people. As much as I enjoy the occasional serendipity that the chaos of life can bring, I enjoy creating my own path more.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#256

Post by mixmastamyk »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

An interesting person once said, "if you're bored, you're boring."

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#257

Post by JustSomeNobody »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

> How do people put up with it?

When I talk to people like this, I hold back. They get the first layer; everyone does. I can sense the attitude and I give them nothing after that.

It is quite possible that is why you see nothing. Nobody wants to show you more.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#258

Post by notjustanymike »

technofiend wrote: post #55

I hate to admit it but one of my bosses taught me that building consensus is a double edged sword and it can be used as weapon. Up until working with him I naively assumed we could all get in a room, hash out our technical differences and agree to a solution. That only works when everyone is (from your perspective) not a bad actor. But how do you deal with an Executive Director who will bald-faced lie and say whateve…

Four levels of decision making:

Consensus: everyone agrees. Most time consuming.

Vote: have two or more appealing options. Majority wins, but everyone is relatively happy with the outcome.

Consult: get everyone's input, but ultimately you decide.

Dictate: you decide, no external input. Fastest.

If you start a meeting by outlining which process you intend to use it helps. All are valid approaches, and depend on the context of the situation.

I use consult quite often when deciding on a technical direction.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#259

Post by jccalhoun »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

I hate kids and I hate talking about sports. I don't know anything about wine. So I let them talk for a bit and then change the subject. I find something that we can talk about that we are both interested in. If all they want to talk about is kids or sports then get better friends.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#260

Post by asdfman123 »

acconrad wrote: post #8

Not everyone responds the same. I hated when people would use fluffy language: "would it be okay if you could do X?" Dammit...just tell me to do X. I know you're not really asking me you're just trying to be nice for something that has to be done. Well... turns out just because I like to hear feedback or orders directly, doesn't mean everyone else does. Part of why your manager treads carefully is because they have t…

That reminds me of that episode of The Office where Jim realizes he can't just choose a single cake and his "idiot" boss has a really difficult job of balancing everyone's needs, applying the right touch and keeping the whole ship running smoothly.
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