Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#251

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 3:48 AM UTC

gaius wrote: post #171

antisthenes wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From everything I've seen, heard, and read on HN, the Bay Area isn't really big on tolerance. It's big on virtue signaling specific kinds of tolerance towards certain groups, but that's about where it ends. Apparently people past middle age aren't one of those groups. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but those are my observations as a 3rd party - I have no skin in the game.

Apparently people past middle age aren't one of those groups. If Zuck had said whites or Asians or men “are just smarter” he would have been flayed alive, but he was (is?) brazenly ageist and not a murmur. That’s Silly Valley in a nutshell.

Don't worry...he will be old soon.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#252

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:02 AM UTC

justinhj wrote: post #88

joewee wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Culture” is a catch all for lack of rapport. Either because of their biases or our own. Which is fine for me, I probably wouldn’t have liked working with them if the most significant finding they come away from the interview is that I want to go home at a reasonable hour or I’m not a sports fan. Lol. Finding a good job fit takes time unfortunately. Having a network helps, because you probably already have shared val…

I agree with your points entirely, but "culture fit" is a very ugly thing when used to exclude people that cannot be legally discriminated against. There's a reason these employment laws exist; people have a right to a job they are qualified to do regardless of whether they share the hobbies or opinions of the interview team.

I always get invited to the good Ole boys club but I truly hate them. They turn out shit work and make for a really crappy environment for the people who are not in. Diverse teams are enriching and productive...buy not as fun or friendly.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#253

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:06 AM UTC

conductr wrote: post #113

duxup wrote: post #8

Heck I'm only over 40. I did a handful of interviews at places where folks who I went to school with also interviewed. I got a lot of "culture" questions. My younger classmates, did not hear the world "culture" in their interviews, ever. It's hard not to be pessimistic and assume "culture" was about age...

It also has to do with will you hang out and play ping pong all night or if you’re an 8-5er

7-to-3er

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#254

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:10 AM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #73

infecto wrote: post #55

Serious question. Is ageism a huge deal? I am not arguing it does not exist but I think about what I have seen in the interviews I have done. We all have biases and I will never be completely unbiased but I try to at least be aware. I sometimes feel that ageism is actually the filter. I notice people I have worked with they at some point stop caring and they kind of give up. They don't stay relevant with whats happen…

With respect I think that those characteristics could equally apply to anyone - old, young or somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't say any of those are specific to people approaching their retirement age. For example I interviewed someone in their early 20s a little while ago who knew Angular 1 inside-out and to the absolute finest detail, but that is obsolete now that we're on Angular 6/React etc - they had never use…

"I am sure they could both pick up the new skills just as easily."

Then what is the relevance of your harping on thier proficiency with slightly older same Ole crap tech?

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#255

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:14 AM UTC

kareemsabri wrote: post #137

I think a lot of startups are, frankly, ageist. They worry about "culture fit" from an older guy. There's a lot of twenty-something running around. They may also worry you don't want to put in the late nights and long hours they want due to perhaps family obligations, or that you may want more than they can afford to pay. If you're still on the market, we're hiring, and not ageist. I'm the CTO, 34.

They are too young to know that older guys don't have to work 60 hours to turn out 20 hours of work.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#256

Post by datavirtue » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:18 AM UTC

knightofmars wrote: post #154

iamdave wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may also worry you don't want to put in the late nights and long hours they want due to perhaps family obligations Unless there's something broken, a system down, or a critical issue that needs to be fixed yesterday, I got news for you: I ain't staying late either. I'm 32 with a dog and a highly opinionated cat. Hire me, or don't. Plenty of other companies out there that respect work life balance and don't insis…

>Unless there's something broken, a system down, or a critical issue that needs to be fixed yesterday, I got news for you: I ain't staying late either. This times 1000. The concept that any company "deserves" more than 8 hours of 5 days (or more) is (in my opinion) disgusting.

I can work 4 hours in the morning...very productive. I come back from lunch and work 2 more--usually dealing with politics and mentoring. Done.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#257

Post by s73v3r_ » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:30 AM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #246

s73v3r_ wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The issue here is should somebody be completely destroyed for a difference of opinion?" Calling it a "difference of opinion" is really masking the entire thing. He was saying that, not only are LGBT people not deserving of the same rights that he had, but that we should be able to vote on what rights they have. Can you see how dehumanizing that is? And I cannot take your bit about "tolerance" seriously when we're ta…

Tolerance is appreciation of disagreement, so it really seems that you are misusing that term to qualify something not stated.

Again, I find it insane that you are calling someone saying that a group of people are not entitled to basic human rights and dignity a "disagreement". You have disagreements over what pizza toppings to get, not if you are allowed to decide if two people in love are allowed to marry.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#258

Post by s73v3r_ » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:33 AM UTC

insvwallhitsyou wrote: post #229

s73v3r_ wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when those political activities are them saying that you are not deserving of the same rights as other people?

If I want to be entitled to my opinion, I have to allow others to have theirs.

I find it insane that you believe that whether someone gets basic human rights is something that people should get to have opinions about.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#259

Post by solipsism » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:42 AM UTC

anonOver60 wrote: post #162

honkycat wrote: post #29

I feel like Google / Amazon / IBM / any of the larger companies would love to have you on board. Maybe look bigger instead of going for start-ups which are often run by children. Anymore people like hiring young inexperienced devs they can abuse and pay poorly. And then they wonder why we have to take months and months to pay off technical debt... Hiring managers and inexperienced management think anybody can learn t…

I've applied to Apple several times over the last 10 years for jobs requiring some very specific and rare skills that I have. They have never responded. I've gone through the interview process at Google twice and was "close but rejected".

Twice is nothing. Seriously.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#260

Post by pcurve » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:44 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #9

I'm in Atlanta, and I work for a SF-based tech company. Most of my coworkers are in their 40's and 50's, and a few are 60. In Atlanta nobody cares about age or background. We also have way more diversity by almost every measure - when I fly out to SF, people look and act the same way. I don't bat an eye when I interview someone older than me. I expect that I'll probably learn a thing or two. Message me. If you've got…

Yep. Come to NJ. We just hired react ui developers in their early 50s and late 50s. They put hundreds of developers we have to shame.

Also, if you're open to contract gig or right to hire, that might be a good way.